I see your point, the problem is the huge market share that bought the rx8 because it was a comfortable car with sporty looks. When i bought my car i didn't care much about the car itself, i was looking at the right chassis for my needs and that's why i still own it!
The problem is that most of the customers want a comfortable fast ride and that's the hard compromise. Heck, i would buy a 1050kg 2 seater mazda in a heartbeat if it had enough power to move it fast. I'm not talking about straight line speed but momentum cars can only do so much.

 

I agree. More to the point, there is a component of the message that is marketing driven, and it's always sugar coated for our pleasure. But most companies do have these underlying philosophies and visions that drive them, and the successful ones somehow manage to let a chunk of that vision make it into their products, even after it's been passed through the business filters of market realities, accountants, lawyers, etc.

In fact, I dare say that's why Detroit is having a comeback - they are back to their core values of delivering high value cars that people want to own, and that are distinctly American in nature.

 

Thanks, FIAT!

 

I've heard that they are not gonna make anymore RX8 in the near future. I might be wrong but that's what i've heard so far.

 

that is correct monchie

 

YES!!! This might be my first time i'm correct for good. Now, i'm expert with the RX8.

Thank you Co-Senior Administrator "Zoom44"

 

Exactly. Whenever you hear yourself thinking, "this time is different", think again. Societies and institution, more so than individuals, tend to take the same actions, including mistakes, over and over again.

We've had a "fuel crisis" before, we've had recessions before, we've had naysayers before, and Mazda has been in the same spot before. In fact, the more I think about this, I don't see why these challenges that need to be overcome for the rotary to continue are any more difficult than those in the past.

 

monchie = the new Taj ?

 

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=tajabaho

A teenager who is a lier on forums, knows absolutely nothing, and an idiot. He does not know what he's talking about and gets flamed for everything. Everything he says always backfires and never makes sense and usually makes a fool out of himself. He's also a post *****.

Mike - Don't pull a tajabaho and put green, white, and red lights in your car, it's so rice!
Conan - But that's cool! I painted my car gold too! It's so hot!

 

For me, I wanted a four seater with a smooth engine and rear wheel drive. Good handling and strong brakes were must haves. Sadly, that's still a very hard bill to fill anywhere near the RX-8's price point.

 

Bullshit.

They took the enthusiasm that existed amongst a core group of Mazda engineers and spun it (just like any great Japanese legend) into something larger than life and sold it to an easily manipulated circle of enthusiasts that wanted to believe that their suffering was not in vain. That the fragile, quirky and universally underpowered rust-buckets that they were nursing along had that "soul of a sports car" (when they really wished it had the heart and body of a sports car).

Mazda was a distant 3rd in the 1970's Japanese car market, working as hard as they could to not be 4th or 5th.
They really did make some extraordinary decisions along the way and did an extraordinary job of spinning the bad ones into a story about passion and commitment. All the while, they had shareholders - just like Honda's and Toyota's and Mitsubishi's - breathing down their necks.
I don't see Ford, Chrysler or GM taking 50% stake in the top three. There is a good reason for that.

 

While i'd like to believe the story of a little garage that builds cars in a cartoonish style i think that I partly have to agree with you.
Mazda builds good cars nowadays. However, being a small manufacturer when compared to Toyota and the likes, they have to find a way to build a niche market and an identity.
The mx5 did that in the nineties, with the weird rotaries as a way to gain visibility. Now they have kept on building good handling cars that cost a bit more than the competitors'. Is it because you're buying a car with a soul? More likely because you're buying from a manufacturer capable of smaller production numbers, so they throw in "quality" and "sport" to keep their niche market alive.
Imho the way they show their soul is their motorsport program that supports both top tier teams and the average parking lot racer. Nice way of making money while supporting their image!
There other are manufacturers with a tradition in japan, Mitsubishi and subaru had to build road going car to reach homologation numbers for the WRC...

 

I will say this for Mazda: From Japan to the US, their top brass are real car enthusiasts who enjoy driving and often participating in motorsports themselves. This is real and is reflected in the product. Bean counters will do what bean counters do but some 'Soul of a sportscar' will tend to bleed through on most Mazda products. There is much work to be done in marketing and continued improvements in engineering, product quality and dealer standards but Mazda must not give up on building passionate cars.

On a somewhat related note; I inspected a 2011 turbocharged Hyundai Sonata yesterday and the seats were so much nicer than the US Mazda 6. It pains me to see Hyundai taking market that could be Mazda's.

Paul.

 

This I believe is true. But it is also true of Toyota and Nissan and I'm sure many others.

Take a Genesis around a corner sometime.

 

I don't know anyone from other manufacturers (So I can't comment) but I deal with people at Mazda at a corporate level and these people are SERIOUS about their racing. Without a few 'rotorheads' as high up the ladder as Mazda North America and Mazda Motor Corp Japan have, THERE WOULD BE NO ROTARY. My take on the main reason the rotary should remain is a unique sensory satisfaction. It's a special kind of smooth that I have not found in other powerplants and I will pay for it. It's small size vs power make all that smooth so right for a lightweight sportscar.

I'm guessing that the Genesis is not your choice for canyon runs?

Paul.

 

Hyundai is more "main-audience" oriented...you can't do cars like Mazda do (driver's oriented IMHO) and be appreciated to a large audience: too stiff this, too firm that...and so on.

For me communication of Mazda could be more precise to "driving oriented" customers.

And as european i'm NOT satisfied about Mazda Motorsport Program....no visibility in tracks, no sales to "enthusiast driver" at least here in EU.

rotary included.

 

A list of interesting facts about the RX8

http://www.rx8blog.com/mazda-rx8-interesting-facts/ Be sure to click on READ MORE to get the whole list

Also FYI, often the reason for rotary engine failure was due to the fact that until a rotary engine comes up to temperature ( ie: a cold engine warmed up) all the metal and dual/metal parts and apex seals haven't expanded to fit perfectly together. So if you rev this cold engine too high you can cause engine damage and hasten premature engine failure over the long run. This is why the 2009-2011 RX8s have a newer tachometer that shows a lower redline until the engine is warm.

Rotaries love to rev all day long, and strive on revs to keep their combustion chambers from flooding, but please NOT until they are warm should you go searching for the redline as you pull gears. Just keep the revs below 6000 until it is warm, which doesn't take long.

I have never had a rotary engine failure on my watch, in my street or race cars. I figure easily over one million rotary miles in close to 39 years, six different Mazda rotary cars. So if you take care of them, they will last.

I realize others have not had the same experience and Mazda has set up its engine rebuilding shop in Virginia with about thirty employees. Business there has slacked in recent years. Either Mazda is building the engines better. or we all are taking smarter and better care of them. Maybe both.

Another saving grace vs piston engines, the rotaries can be rebuilt at a fraction of the cost of a new engine, and then have a new full life. We never ditched our racing rotaries after bashing them for a season, we just rebuilt them and they raced on for years. Fact is many of the championship winning race RX7s had the same underlying chassis and same engine for a few seasons of racing.

 

That is what Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborghini and their ilk are for.

What you meant to say was "driving oriented customers with very little money".

And therein lies the rub.

What would compel a major manufacturer to build expensive, small-production-yield cars for people that can't pay for them?

 

I'm one of those who want a more up-market positioning of Mazda.

Here in EU it's hard to be a "sporty brand" without a Motorsport Program

 

In europe it's simply impossible to run in any kind of motorsport series too, and we have to take that into account.
National touring championships are more expensive and competitive than the ones ran in other continents because manufacturers like porsche, bmw, audi etc all have official cars running around. Even ferrari avoids running an official team!
Then you have FIA's monopoly, and that means even more money. Tyres cost more, fuel costs more, components cost more etc. Independent teams are shutting down because of the recession, Mazda suffered a lot too so why waste even more money?

Spec classes are rare and as expensive as real championships, rotaries and turbo cars are heavily penalized etc. Mazda stands no chance in europe.

 

there are alternatives like mx-5 championship (USA) or a more serious endgagment into LMP with 2 liter engine.

for rotaries, i agree...out of reach.

no money=no visibility

 

You're spot on but there are some facts that should be put straight.
It all comes to the income that the increased visibility allegedly warrants. We don't have so many motorsport programmes, touring championships go through small networks or pay per view tv.
Add the fact that the big boys run with official cars that cost 300.000€ against teams with budgets of 100.000€ for a full season, car included.
Mazda has got the chassis to compete but lacks the engines and teams and competing doesn't give you visibility nowadays, you have to WIN!

I would love to have a spec miata national championship with inter-european finals across europe. It would be super sweet and i'd probably give up football to race but the truth is that they would just be wasting money.

 

True, the next rotary is not the 8....

 

Next Rotary...with Gas prices now at $5 (and over), $6.50 Australia and $9.00 (rough) Europe a Gallon...there will be NO petroleum fueled ONLY rotary in the foreseeable future....

As much as I want to see a (dino only) rotary, how will Mazda sell it, even with a 20% (optimistic) improvement in Economy over the renny...

It just wont sell...

 

It would sell, just not as a 4 seats "family" car. That's why a true sportcar is a must if mazda wants to keep the rotary alive.