Gord96BRG

This rumour got started in the very first line of the first post of this thread, where I wrote:. I started this rumour - but it's based on some analysis and discussion of those photos that took place in this "NC Spyshots?" thread over on the Miata forum. I've said a few times in this thread - it might just be a test mule for the new NC Miata due in just under one year, OR it might actually be a test mule for a new rotary-powered convertible....

Regards,
Gordon

Gord96BRG

Paulie is NOT joking - a different picture of that car, the X1B, is in the Yamaguchi RX-8 book (page 119). Built around 1995, it was an engineering mule based on a stretched Miata, which tested new suspension designs for the 1995 RX-01 concept car.

In 2001, Mazda built several test mules for the RX-8 chassis and suspension - they were called M1, and were based on the body of the Japanese/European 626 sedan! (Ref p120 of Yamaguchi book). Those M1 mules were responsible for the initial chassis and suspension tuning work for the RX-8 suspension, as well as work on the B-pillarless door design. I haven't found pictures of the RX-8 M1 mules online anywhere, but you'd be surprised at what ugly beasts those were too!

Regards,
Gordon

MEGAREDS

Reminded me of the photo below... which is a personal favorite.

PaulieWalnuts

Ahhh yes, the new RX-8 Snowcat Dualie. It will be appearing in the movie sequal, The Shining 2. How dare anyone accuse this of being a Photoshop'd picture!

BBQ

All the the pieces you guys keep circling just look like crappy body work to me. I don't see why you think it is photoshopped. Just looks like poor workmanship, which I would expect. I personally doubt all 6 photos are photoshopped. I can understand engineers testing with crappy bodywork.

T-von

Yep I agree! Just look at how ugly that miata test mule was for the rx8. Sooooo if it is an Rx7, anyone care to speculate what size rotary is under the hood? Thats what I really want to know?

TORacing

Ok. so wouldn't the fact that the car would not be stiff and rigid and it would flap in the winf becuase the panels don't fit matter just as much the fact that they need to keep it a convertable. You are contradicting yourself. This is not a REAL mule.

TORacing

Here is a cut-out of the Channel4 Terms & Conditions contract:

The information and other materials included on this site may contain inaccuracies and typographical errors. Channel 4 does not warrant the accuracy or completeness of the information and materials or the reliability of any statement or other information displayed or distributed through the site (including, without limitation, the information provided through the use of any software). You acknowledge that any reliance on any such statement or information shall be at your sole risk.

More evidence it isn't real

Smoker

Man, you are digging deeper and deeper into the big hole here horse and your ignorance is CLEARLY showing. Nothing personal here just basing my opinions on your posts.

Anyway, you are confusing body panels with Body Frame and structure. There are NOT the same thing. Just because you have body panel flapping in the wind, it does NOT mean the frame and body structure are weak and a test cannot be conducted on them to test their design and rigidity.

Gord96BRG

No. The panels are generally not structural - you could remove the hood, front fenders, and bumper from your RX-8 and it would make absolutely ZERO difference to the structural rigidity of the car! Rear fenders generally are structural, but it's awfully easy to seam weld them on so they provide the necessary stiffness without having to look great. The close-up of the mule's rear fender area ahead of the rear wheel well is a perfect example - the rear fender is properly attached to the chassis that is visible where a rocker panel/side sill cover would go, but it ain't pretty.

It depends on what the purpose of the mule is - if suspension testing, Mazda would ensure that the chassis is as stiff as it needs to be, even if it's heavier than a production version. Again, in the Yamaguchi RX-8 book, he describes how the M1 mule (note again, it was a Euro 626 chassis adapted for RX-8 suspension testing) wasn't stiff enough at the rear for the suspension to work optimally, so they had to stiffen it to improve grip - that testing gave the requirements for rear chassis stiffness for the final RX-8 structure, even though the development work was on a 626-based chassis.

Once again - that is a real test mule, whether MX-5 or RX-7 convertible - there is no doubt. There's also no doubt that you don't know a whole lot about automotive engineering processes - you really should try and learn from this discussion, rather than being an ostrich with your head buried in the sand!

Regards,
Gordon

Gord96BRG

Yeah, right - do you always listen to legal disclaimers? Go read the disclaimers in your owners manual, if you're into that sort of thing. You'll find that sort of disclaimer on pretty much EVERY web site - it means nothing about the veracity of the information posted, it's just a legal CYA.

Regards,
Gordon

Hanzo

Looks like they are testing the next Gen Miata. I would say it could very well be real. Remember that these prototype cars have a lot of disguise and factory will tape over areas of the car causing it to look like photoshopped.

zoom44

SEE!!! thats what i said!! and those pics are out there somewhere. used to be on Maza Japan website. and one was at sevenstock! guess i'll have to look through all the pics here and at rotarynews.com to find them.

zoom44

found a post about it here but the links to the vids are broken.

PaulieWalnuts

Gordon, could you scan and post the rest of the mules from the book? I've scoured the Internet and can't find any.

Titanium190

Horse:

The purpose of a mule is to test individual componentry that fits on or in a car. As a result, the engineers build these rigs with only the bare minimum of structure to give reliable feedback from the components being tested. If you ripped off the crappy exterior and looked at the structure beneath, you would probably see a very sturdy chassis with all the running gear required to test the suspension, drivetrain or whatever happens to be on test that day - the body panels simply reduce the wind resistance of the car a bit, and stop the rain getting in (although a lot of mules aren't very good with the rain part!)

There are a lot of people on here who know their stuff regarding automotive engineering and design, and they've all had their input. I think it's safe to say that it IS a real car, it IS a mule, and it HAS NOT been photoshopped. The disclaimer on the 4Car website is simply to stop the car companies suing if incorrect details are published about a product, nothing to do with posting fake pictures.

Plain and simple.

zoom44

that's alright paulie i'm on it

here is a grainy pic from rotarynews.com

zoom44

and here is a pic of one from sevenstock.org no one was supposed to photograph it but you know how well that goes down for rotorheads.

PaulieWalnuts

Yep, that's one trainwreck of a test mule. Horse, this is a (crappy) picture of a real test mule. Notice how nothing fits right nor lines up properly. That's the way they do it.

cueball

If you guys want an up close look at how cobled together mules can be check out this months motor trend. They have a feature on the Pontiac Solstice. The bumper appears to held on by wire.

PaulieWalnuts

I saw the Solstice but I think that's well beyond a chassis franken-mule. It's a rough version of the final design that will go into production. And not to get off topic, but the Solstice is the first car (well, besides the Vette) GM has come up with that made me think "wow, I like it".

r0tor

iTrader: (1)

I'd like to call attention to extremely sooty dual exhaust.... that looks like a rotary sign to me :p

Gigolo Jason

THe rumor is that Mazda will be offering a Rotary in the next Miata. This is only a rumor. What we could be looking at hear is a Mazda attempt to do so. The next Miata will be out shortly and from what I have heard it will be closly related to the RX-8 and to, heven for bid I say it to jinx it from happening, the next 7.

zoom44

anybody else thinking that it is not even a vert? maybe a hard top under that cloth?

Floyd

I don't know about a hard top under there, but Its common knowledge that the RX-8 chasis is going to be a platform for near every other performance vehicle Mazda puts out. Thats why they spent so much $$$ developing it. They will build several cars ontop of it top get the return on development they are looking for. This means our beloved RX-8 will be the heart of mazda's performance future, rotary and pistons alike. As for this mule I think the two best arguments for this NOT being the next gen miata are the 5 lug set up when miatas are four lugs, and the EXTREMLY sooty tail pipes. Pretty questionable when taking that into consideration.