GodWhomIsMike

I noticed a couple of thrends dealing with Honda's, Accords, CRX's, Is300's. I dunno, I see the RX-8 as a car that is a major step away from that. Maybe it's cause I been "stuck" financing my 4 banger 4 door Kia Sephia for the last 5 years and now I am looking into a sports car that has great preformance bone stock, that sounds like a sports car, looks like a sports car, drives and handles like a sports car... and all of this coming from a bone stock car with no aftermarket NOS, CAI's, "fart pipes" (I had to use that term I think it's funny), billions of decals, monster spoilers that belong only on Drag racing funny cars, etc etc I think you get my point.

I know this is the "general automotive" section.... I dunno all this talk just seems ummmm like it completely doesn't belong. I know and I am gonna get flamed for my 2003 Mustang Mach 1 post(s) or my Audi TT 3.2 post(s).

I guess I dislike the whole scene of buying a $12K-$20K car and then dumping thousands and thousands of cash into it and making it look like something out of "Fast and Furious" and to get preformance that others cars have already in them.

I believe a true sports car is either a muscle car, or a lightweight and fast car with extreme handling - coming bone stock from the manufacture. Not a 4 banger that has way over $10K invested for redoing the whole engine and adding dressing up kits. IMHO

I also offer a pre-emptive apology for anyone I offened. Sorry guys.

Y&Y

you're right. Well at least I agree with you. But I think most people knew that. But you know how these kids are. They just want to go fast. But they have no sense when it comes to money. I know quite a few people that lived on nothing but instant noodles and didn't have any social life what so ever. Its what I call waste of human space. I'm thinking whats the point in fixing up a POS only to make it even less reliable. I mean I've seen people put spoilers on minivans and M3's. For goodness sake these people needs common sense.

MRocks

Well I agree with you to an extent. I always say that why would people want to waste money on making a car fast, when you could use that money you paid for aftermarket parts and for the cheap car towards something that's already just as fast. But, I see most of these people that do these sort of things are teenagers and they're not loaded with cash whereas they can't go out and buy an M3. So they take what they can get and try to mod the hell out of it.

There is also a difference with modding tastefully. On my car, I have smoked windows and I dropped it around an inch all around. It's tasteful, looks classy, and you can barely notice the drop. But other people just go beyond bad taste and add really tall spoilers, body kits and stickers featuring the company that makes their aftermarket cup holder. It's just that they have an image of what they think looks cool, whereas everyone else is just laughing at them. I guess they feel by doing those sorts of things to their cars they are just trying to intimidate people into thinking that because i have such a huge wing then I have an 1000hp engine under the hood. All bark and no bite.

MRocks

Also, I don't mean to be the bearer of bad news because I like the car, but didn't Autoweek run an article questioning whether the RX8 was a real sports car?

bwayout

At least ... for me when you sit in side the RX-8, it really feels like a "tight little" sports car cabin (which is a good thing if you want a spots car feel and I'm sure when we all finally get to drive one - there won't be anyone saying that it's not ... !

:D

Personlly, I was hoping for a little more of the RX-Evolv's larger cabin proportions to show up in the RX-8 to help better accommodate myself and the wife and 2 kids in back for some long weekend or much longer week vacation road trips ...

:p

Saddly for me, after seeing the RX-8 at the Mazda Rev-it-up event, I had to come to the conclusion, that having sit inside the RX-8 with my family - the extra (freestyle) back doors, really didn't add anything for my family needs in a car and wouldn't be any different than if I decided to get a Celica, RSX or G35 coupe - except that I like the looks and style of the RX-8 over everything else on the road right now that's a 2+2!

Anyway, If you feel that the G35 coupe is a sports car, than so is the RX-8!

bwayout

Well, the April 03 issue with the RX-8, 350Z and BMW 330i on the cover the cover story artical's last closing paragraph states "The RX-8 is different, but it's a true sports car."

Personally, I wouldn't mind if it was only sporty (vs a sports car) and let the RX-7 and Miata be Mazda's sports cars ... so us family types could have a car little more funtional with a little more room ... for the family on those weekends when we need it ...

blizz81

There is no completely objective definition of what a sports car is, so I don't think anyone should worry about whether or not people think the 8 is a "true sports car" or not.

For the record, to me, "sport" is adjacent to "athletic", which implies agility, nimbleness, balance, quickness, endurance.

I mean, when I think sport, I don't think of John Kruk or Mo Vaughn or other obese characters playing a 'game' (some people will say baseball is a sport) where 90% of the time, any given participant isn't even moving....I think of soccer/futbol players and hockey players, basketball players....where the participants exercise and fitness is more of a factor. (Of course, you have your bruisers in hockey, but even they're coordinated enough to ice skate quite well, and have about 20% on some baseball players in terms of body fat).

My definition as it applies to autos is similar....more slanted towards handling and quickness than say, torque and top-speed. But as endurance is important, so is reliability.

This analogy makes me wonder why the term 'sports car' was coined and not some other phrase.

Quick_lude

While I agree on the "rice" angle, I don't agree that a "muscle car" is a true sports car. To me muscle cars means big engine and usually not much breaking or handling abilities. Although that has changed in the last few years I guess..

So would you consider a gasp! :D Honda civic with a turbo charged engine, Brembo brakes and a Tein coilover suspension a sports car? I would. So what if the car had $10,000 of modifications done to it.. Modding is a hobby, just like any other hobby of building and customizing something by yourself.. seeing the fruits of those mods.. etc.. Heck, people have been modding muscle cars since the 50's right? They were cheap and easy to work on.. just like todays' Civic. Cheap, readily available parts, etc. Unfortunately there is a LOT of "rice" out there which for the most part are cosmetic mods that in our eyes take away from the car..

In my case I've done engine, suspension and brake mods on my car.. It's still classy and clean, no rice and the overall performance of the car has improved immensly over stock. Yeah so I spent maybe $3000 Cnd doing that.. but like I said before it was fun, especially since I did all the work myself. Took apart the damn suspension too many times already..

Charleston

We can all define a sports car anyway we want. I can see both sides. I am very impressed that a generation of kids are growing up learning how to work on the new technology cars on the street today. Who knows it could lead to a lifetime profession as a Class 1 mechanic. My brother loves high power sports cars and then beefs them up into super sports cars:
http://home.attbi.com/~wegetourmail/...ome.html-.html

OTOH I am just happy to be getting my first sports car a--GR8RX8.

LightEmUp

Apology accepted, I agree with you to an extent. But the thing you have to understand is the whole, I have a civic that can beat your mustang, concept. I own a 98 Civic hatchback, which I purchased for 7 thousand dollars with 30k kilometers on it. I will still own the civic when I get the RX-8, and I will continue to waste more money on it. When you say lightweight and fast with extreme handling, my civic fits that description. Full H&R coilovers(1200 dollar suspension), Benen lower tie bar/upper front/rear tower, also getting a cage built for it as we speak. Weight? 2100 pounds, 176 whp, good for a 13.9 1/4 mile time. I also race at Nurburgring once a month. I've probably spent roughly 6-7k dollars. Add that to the original 7000 i paid for it. Now go find me a car that can perform as well as my car for 14 thousand dollars or less, in stock form.

moogle

Go sell your mach 1 mustang and your audi and get a corvette z6, I don't even know why you bother with a mustang mach 1 and tt when you can get a z6 and smoke almost everything on the road, since that's what your looking for.

Yes your Mustang and Audi doesn't belong go ahead and sell it.

About that fast and the furious comment, some people barely spend on honda civics "ALL MOTOR" and will gladly take that smile of your v8.

"I actually like the early camaros and gtos."
Sure muscle cars are known for huge engine with their monster torque 5L v8 engine, but if a 1.8L v4 vtec engine whoops is ***... what an embarassment of a sports car don't you think.

Toadman

Your car is not stock so no comparo will work. Grannies in used LS1's, SVT's, and WS6's will match you in ET. Pony cars, the last of the hi-torque big engined domestics with mediocre handling.

Now for modded most bang-for-the-buck, grab a used Miata, toss in a $3,500 turbo kit good for 200hp and your Civic will get stomped , track or strip. Why? A lightweight 2 seater w/RWD right from the showroom floor. No need to gut it out and sacrifice comfort/audio/AC, turning the car into something it was never designed to be. Or get a 13k used FD. I could prolly dump 20k into a Hummer and get it into the 10's, but what's the point?

As an entry level car, I'm sure it's fun to mod a civic and do a B16 and bolt-ons pay-as-you-go, but look at how much you put into it to make a FWD sub-compact competitive on the course/strip. Add up those receipts sometime then hit up auto trader on 13.9-sec cars you could have gotten and possibly be in the low 11's for less than $2k in additional mods.

BRx8

this debate can go on for pages...anyhow, IMO (that's IN MY OPINION spelled out so i don't get flamed for having one) a true sports car has to meet all of these criteria (in no order)

1) Looks - the first thing you notice about a car is the looks...does it have aggressive styling? does it look like a concept car? does it look sexy with bodylines like a Playboy Playmate?

2) Performace - is it fast? can it handle? is it lightweight? can it stop on a dime? does it ride like it's on rails? can it accelerate from 0 - 60 in no time? this is perhaps the most important of the criterias

3) Price - this is perhaps the most debatable criteria...how much does it cost? as you see, most Italian sports cars that is universally considered a "true" sports car costs money...does it mean that all sports cars need to cost a lot of money? not necessarily, but if you put all that attention to looks and performance, the end figure IS gonna cost a lot...why? because you can't buy all the parts from the grocery store like you can a Honda Civic...also, price limits the demographic to which the car will be available to...would a Diablo, 360 Modena, or 911 be the same if everyone had one?

so IMO, a true sports car must meet all 3 criterias...with that said, a Civic is by no means a true sports car no matter what you do to it...it isn't even a sports car in any stretch of the word...with thousands of dollars worth of parts, it may be considered a "fast" economy passenger car, but never, ever a sports car...a Miata, i can't say...i've never considered it a sports car because of all three factors...to me it doesn't look like a sports car, it doesn't perform like one stock, and it's cheap...it's "sportier" than the civic but still not entirely a sports car...

Toadman

Someone needs a spirited ride in the little roadster, I think.

bwayout

BRx8, Too bad you missed out on the Mazda Reve-it-up event where you could have drove the Miata around the track ...



And there's nothing wrong with "cheap" (less $) sports cars like the miata or the mini cooper ...

BRx8

it was sold out in my area! by the time i got the invitation, i called the number and they said it was all sold out...needless to say i was pretty PO'd considering i'd been waiting to see the RX up close...

Sputnik

Maybe to you, but you don't speak for the rest of us. A Mustang Cobra with a KenneBell SC should be all you need then.

---jps

moogle

mmm made a mistake plz delete this.

moogle

There is such a sports car.
Corvette z6

price = It's very cheap for what its worth... the cheapest supercar. "and average person can afford this, but he'll sure be hungry for a couple of years"

performance = It's a hair short of a viper.

looks = It's subjective but hey it could get the ladies and tear up almost EVERY car on the road. "looks sporty to me"

BRx8

exactly...and that's why i put this in there:

also, i do consider Mustangs sports cars...and the Corvette C6? hell yea...i love the looks and performance...