VikingDJ

I have no trust in that chart whatsoever. Those numbers are nothing like my experience. I guess I live in a good area. I rarely ever broke 20mpg on my RX8, I get about 20-22mpg on STI with combo of city/highway, and 26 mpg on highway trips. I don't know what to make of that Mpg chart for the S2000. I have yet to get below 25mpg, even when driving it hard on many occasions per tank, and I got 31mpg on my one road trip doing 65-70mph. Those owners must be babying the RX8, and high revving the S2K, for those to be realistic. I know I'd have to push that car very hard, and avoid highway to get 22mpg on my S2K. Insurance costs didn't change when I sold my RX8 and bought an S2K, but I concur the STI insurance is just ridiculously high, because they know what kind of power it has. If they ever make the RX8 close to as fast, we're gonna see a nice jump in rates for the RX8. That chart shows the RX8 costing a lot less to own per year in insurance and fuel, but the reality in my area is that those numbers are reversed. So much for consumer reports, as I can't ever look at their ratings again and believe them.

scottmhr1

The insurance companies know more than what you think. They do not place rates just on power but on the type of person who buys them and what they are likley to act like in them. Younger people with an STI tend to want to jam the gas at all time just to show that an ugly econobox can kick ***, therefore they tend to screw up and wreck more. Just actuarial tables. Sure, Just like all young drivers say they are responsible, the real numbers show different.

playdoh43

exactly most rx8 owners ive come across are mature well to do adults, while theres a lot of young, agressive driving EVO STI drivers at my university

Shiri

Based on that chart, the BMW looks like an excellent buy.

TODreamer

See when you first said that the insurance on an S was teh same I didnt beleive you at all. I was thinking How does a more powerful, high theft roadster have the same rate as a 1.3L "sedan" that isnt as fast..

..then I checked it out

S2000 CHEAPER buy a buck a month. I still dont get it.... How so It simply doesnt make sense

Anybody in auto insurance that can help me out with this one?

Sigma

It can simply depend on where you're located at. If, in your region, the S2000 has proven to be a car that's not in accidents, but the RX-8 has -- well there you go.

For Example, my Mazda3 has gone from being cheaper than my Mazda6 (which makes sense) to being more than my Mazda6 as the number of young people have bought them and subsequently crashed them. They've also shown to be incredibly expensive to repair.

RX-8? Cheaper than either of them.

Will that follow for everyone else? No. It can change based on your area, your demographic, etc, etc, etc.

CR gets their figures from published insurance figures that give the average cost to insure. I don't like CR, but you can't blame that data on them. That's someone else's.

TODreamer

Right.. but there is no data on the RX8 that can be properly compared to the S2000 which has been out longer and is a known fact to be high theft (seats).

The only thing I can think of is perhaps the RX8 costs an arm and a leg to repair and insurance companies are just covering their **** in the event that it happens

dwynne

These are bogus numbers - as far as the S2000 and RX-8 are concerned. Edmunds probably took the "Average" price (MSRP) of an 8 which might be $28k or so and the S2000 at MSRP ($33,700) into account as well as fuel cost (based on EPA, which we know is wrong), insurance cost (which varies widely), and future value (which we know sux on the RX-8, but they don't) to get cost per mile. Since the 8 under performs EPA by a bunch while the S gets EPA or better and you can get a new S for $30k (I just did) and it cost no more to insure and retains more of resale value - then YOU KNOW these numbers are just wrong.

The captive lease residual for a 24 month, 24k mile lease from MAC on a new RX-8 with 6mt is 59%. The resiaul for a 36 month, 36k lease from Honda Finance is 59%. So even MAC knows the resale value is in the tank. Weaker resale, about same insurance (varies widely with where you live), and much better mileage means CPM is greater on the S - not less as they say. I have both and I would not lie to you

Dennis

dwynne

More bad numbers you are posting.

I am an "old faht" and my SF insurance is $0.39 more per month for the 8 than it is for the S. It varies with age, location, company, and driving experience - but no way should it be "A lot" higher to insure an S. I don't think the cars get stolen much, but punk kids may steal the seats and rims to put on their "lesser" Hondas.

The S used to be even cheaper to insure, but as used examples got more and more affordable (and dealers started discounting new ones) they fell into the hands of younger and younger drivers. Many of these drivers had NO experience with a RWD car much less a real sports car. No traction and DSC = lots of spin out wrecks, so the car has been re-rated higher.

I would expect the same thing with the 8. At first limited supply and high demand = high prices and more "mature" drivers. Now that prices and fallen and there are tons of cheap used examples (and getting more plentiful and cheaper all the time) they are falling into the hands of younger drivers with no RWD experience. Some of them wreck and the rest of us pay more.

The Miata has never had a lot of appeal to really young buyers, so the insurance had always stayed pretty low - though I am sure it has been raised a time or too just due to there being so many of them available now so cheap.

Insurance companies don't lose money, they see claims go up on a car and they raise the rates. Ditto folks in certain areas and certain ages. Pretty hard to compare MY insurance with that of someone else, but since I have two of the cars you compared I can tell you for sure your data is flawed.

I got 22-23mpg in my 01 S commuting to work and I am getting about the same in my new 05 (with less than 1k on the clock). I am getting 13-15mpg in the new 8 with about the same number of miles on it driving back and forth to work along the same route. No doubt which of these two is cheaper per mile: one cost about $1,500-2,000 more, but will be worth the same 12 months FARTHER down the road, costs the same to insure, and gets MUCH better gas mileage.

Dennis

TODreamer

I really have to call my broker for further explanation, because when you think about it .. It SHOULD be alot more to insure than an 8....

All other factors being constant and simply comparing the cars. The S2K is:

- A Convertible (high risk of theft and vandalism)

- A Honda (high theft again... my broker has mentinoed the "honda factor" many times)

- A Two Seater (indicates sports car)

- Limited quantity ( may indicate high replacement parts)

- No DSC

All of these factors combined is a very "risky" mix.. and as I said before I dont think they have enough data on the RX8 to ascertain whether or not its a high risk car.

As you said, "insurance companies dont lose money".... So theres gotta be something they know that I dont

Deslock

Sure... spend $14,000 more than the base RX8 and save $52/year on fuel and insurance

cleoent

lol, the way some people think is funny huh?

My father in law bought a g35 last year, he wanted to save money on gas so this year he went and bought a prius. How long is it going to take to get back his 28k from 2k a year savings on gas? lol

dwynne

Like I said, I have both an 05 8 and an 05 S and the S is cheaper for me to insure (but by less than a $1 a month) - so you can list some list of things you THINK make it cost more for YOU but I would doubt that any of them apply.

My agent never asked if my 8 has DSC or not, and I bet your agent didn't ask you either - so the fact that the S does not have it is a non-issue.

It may just be your insurance company has had more claims on S2000s from folks your age than they have from folks your age on the 8 - so the 8 is cheaper to insure.

When I got my wife a new Accord this year I made sure I checked the insurance first, figuring the "Accords get stolen a lot" you always hear would make it a high priced to insure. Nope, not much higher than her prior 2000 model year car. When I traded my 01 S for an 05 S the insurance only went up a couple of dollars a month. So with the right company, Hondas do not cost more to insure.

So it all just depends on where YOU live, YOUR age and driving experience, YOU accident and ticket record, and YOUR insurance company. For me, the S and the 8 cost about the same to insure. If the cost of insurance was an issue, then I would have shopped for a new agent and company and got the car you wanted, not the one that your current company would insure for less money. Of course, if you have a bad driving record and some at fault accidents then you are pretty much stuck with what you have.

Dennis

Slick8

The data I posted are just references, they are by no means facts. There are too many variables to considered them as fact.

However, I did not pull them out of my **** and they are not random OPINIONS from people on this forum...

You can only use this data to form your own conclusions.

BigOLundh

iTrader: (1)

BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH!!! BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH!!! BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH!!! BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH!!! BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH!!! BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH!!! BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH!!! BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH!!! BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH!!! BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH!!! BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH!!! BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH!!! BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH!!! BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH!!! BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH!!! BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH!!! BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH!!! BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH!!! BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH!!! BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH!!! BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH!!! BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH!!! BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH!!! BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH!!! BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH!!! BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH!!! BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH!!! BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH!!! BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH!!! BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH!!! BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH!!! BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH!!! BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH!!! BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH!!! BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH!!! BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH!!!

Just test drive both cars, and see which one fits you best. Nothing else will really matter in the end.

They are both reliable.
Gas mileage - who cares? it's a freaking sports car, not a v@gina mobile.
Price - similar...

JUST GO DRIVE!!!!!!!!!

Slick8

Bump... most people are so full of it.

Irrational exuberance for 0-60mph times when 99% of your driving will never need those times, irrational concerns of gas mileage on a sportscar where a difference of 2mpg is a show stopper, irrational logic based on distorted opinions and not on the reality of it all...

Alchemy

Thanks again to everyone for all their help!

Yesterday I put my deposit down on an '06 Mustang GT. It was a very tough decision, I test drove both the Ford and the Mazda twice before making my final choice. I even drove a G35 as someone reccomended but I couldn't justfiy spending so much money on that car. On the second mustang test drive I really got to open up the GT around the corners and was quite satisfied with the way it handled and was even more impressed with its power the second time around. The second time I test drove the RX-8 it's lack of "*****" in low gear and low rpms was a bit of a downer, but don't get me wrong, I still think the RX-8 is a great car and I have a lot of respect for it and its drivers.

In the end it really came down to price. I found a dealer that would give me X-plan on the GT, so I got a GT with leather for 24.5k before TTL, 26.5 out the door.

To get leather on the RX-8, I would had to get the grand touring package which would cost me another 2-3k over the GT easily. There's no doubt that the handling and interior build quality on the 8 are things I'll miss on the Ford, but I was also concerned about the weak AC, the reports of people getting damaged AC condensers from flying gravel due to mazda's neglect to put a guard over them, the difficulty of installing an aftermarket stereo, and the fact that the 8 gets worse gas mileage than the GT all while making 80 fewer horses. The Mustang also takes 87 octane while the RX-8 reccomends 93. Then I saw a post on here about how the spark plugs needed to be replaced every 25k miles or so, and since I'm not exactly a DIY kind of guy I was concerned about maintenance expenses on the RX-8 (not that this is necessarily a problem with the car, but just something that I ultimately do not want to deal with).

Maybe next time I buy a car it will be a rotary mazda! I do think it's an interesting design and still love the styling on the RX-8. Thanks again.

cleoent

Sounds like you made the right choice... for you of course. Please post pics when you recieve the car

ZoomZoomH

iTrader: (1)

a logical decision was made, congrats on the new car

but don't be a stranger, keep visiting the forum anyway, we do need a Mustang owner to kick around once in a while :D

Roaddemon

I think you got the right car for you and at a great price too. I personally wanted a true sportscar that could do more. That's why I bought the rx8. Also wanted the rotary since I'm a rotary enthusiast. The Mustang is a nice car but the styling just is too youth oriented for me. The Rx8 is more sophisticated and I think better engineered. It's a car I'll keep forever and can still use as a dailey driver. Still, If the RX8 was not here I'd take a serious look at the stang conv. I like convertibles.

Have fun with your new Stang. Lots of torque to play with.

playdoh43

congratulations. its a heck of a deal, really good bang for the buck

Japan8

And you obviously are not well informed. The mustang comes out of the same factory as the Mazda6.

There is nothing wrong with the Mustang's engineering. Yes this platform doesn't use IRS, so what? Ford dropped it to make the V6 mustang affordable and for those who like to drag race their mustangs. They could have used it on the upcoming Shelby GT 500, and about a year ago word was the the new Cobra would definitely have IRS. So why doesn't the GT 500? Ford found the current setup works well... real well in racing. Ultimately it does give up a little refinement compared to IRS, but as far as handling on the track goes... supposedly this setup sticks well. The modded Stangs tested in one magazine well pulling some decent skidpad and slalom numbers. This whole thing is akin to the OHC vs Pushrod issue... GM has made a lighter, more compact, more fuel efficient and more powerful engine with their LS series V8s. What advantage is there to going to a DOHC setup? Some say smoothness, but others say they feel little difference. And did I mention that the pushrod engine is also cheaper to manufacture? Ford should have stuck with the 302 and 351... the modular V8s weren't worth all the development costs.

Japan8

Congrats on the Stang. Glad you were able to decide on which is right for you. When I evenutally leave Japan I'll be in the same dilemma... been a long time Stang lover, but there's something about the 8...

tee_rx8

Congrat on ur new stang and also glad that the number of rx8 out there stop increasing...lol, just kidding, but i really dont want to see rx8 on the street as much as other vehicles.

TODreamer

Well I couldnt find his original post but from what you quoted, I didnt get the impression that he thought something was wrong with the mustang engineering... and granted nothing is... mind you nothing is all that hot about it either... 300HP out of a V8? Thats nothing to write home about, you kind of expect that... but at its price target its not too bad at all. Be that as it may, I think the stang is great value.

Its always been about cost and an easy to understand setup with the US manufacturers and never quite so much about "engineering" (relatively speaking)... seems pretty passive to me.

As for the IRS thing, I wish people would stop ragging the stang for that. the car was meant for dragging and a live axel does best for that, leave it alone.