AbusiveWombat

Seeing as the Mazda6s is already ~25k I doubt the MS6 will be less than the R32. It's too bad Mazda ditched the blue back lighting for the dash and center stack.

Ike

Keep in mind the 6S is a 6 cylinder, the 4 cylinder with a turbo shouldn't cost much more than the that... Though that depends on a lot of factors. If they break above the 30k pricerange with the MPS 6, then it's competing against it's own flagship, as well as a plethora of other cars that will offer either more luxury or more performance most likely. That doesn't seem like it would be a smart move by Mazda, unless they just want to turn out a few thousand of them be done and move on, rather than actually try to be class leading in any way...

Senseny

Ike, I don't mind Mazda making special edition cars faster than the 8. Down the road, if they come out with a new 7 or a turbo 8, that should be the fastest car in the Mazda line. As it stands now, the 6s is not that much slower than an 8 anyway.

chinx

for those who say this is a wrong move by mazda, i DISAGREE. i think it's an excellent move by mazda. remember, the atenza came out 2 years before the 8 did, it's the first car to kick off mazda's rejuvenation. and the mps concept was shown 2 years ago. mazda made good on their promise in bringing this car out, which only bodes well for what will come in the future, rotary and piston. they delivered all the right equipment, too; single turbo, what looks like an excellent AWD mechanism, 6-speed tranny, and a pretty classy-looking interior and body. this ms6 looks like it'll be excellent. the car shown at the show is pretty much the production model for europe. being a mazda enthusiast, you should know better than be fooled by numbers. plus, it's the euro-spec car that has 260ps; it's possible the jdm car will have more. this will further put mazda on the performance car map, probably boost 6's sales, enhance their image and desirability of mazda cars. these're all good things. as far as pricing and availability, i doubt it'll be way expensive. i'd say 28~30k. and it'll probably be a limited-run car, like the miata turbo. and if you're afraid it'll be quicker/faster than your 8, then you probably should've waited a couple o' years for the performance derivatives. should've seen this coming. plus, the 8 isn't about drag and speed

Tirminyl

From what I have seen it seems a lot of mazda cars are a hair in of the 8 as far as performance. It's like they are shooting for them to be at the same performance level. Iunno...don't go bashing or quoting me Granted each car is for a different group of people. The 8 does what it does like the 6 does what it does. It's all good.

And chinx- it will def be a limited production car. I cannot see it any other way. To me thats one of the things mazdaspeed is about, exclusivity.

Lufa

There is little doubt in my mind that this car will be faster than the 8, probably get much better gas mileage too. The current V6 6's and 8's are already dynoing nearly the same.

I just hope they keep it at a lower price point than ther 8 as well.

The only thing that will irk me is if they advertise it as a 275HP car that only dynos 200, or something brain dead like that again.

Fanman

Are you sure it is a turboed 4 cyl. ? That is almost the exact opposite of the V6 it has right now. In terms of torque, and around town drivability. It would be much easier to add 35 (255 hp) hp to the existing V6 then to put in a new 4 cyl. engine.

zoom44

are you sure you read the articles/press release?

r0tor

iTrader: (1)

looks awesome...

Fanman

I just saw the article in the first post, but I read the press release now on the Mazda website. Kind've disappointing to me. I would rather have a low boosted V6 (from the 6S) than a highly boosted I-4 (from the 6i). This probably kills the everyday drivability of the car, but will make it very fun.

s13lover

I'm glad to see that its gonna have a direct injection motor. The delevopment knowledge from that motor can be shared with all other Mazda piston engines to provide better hp, emission, and gas mileage.

IMO the car is great, except for the wheels and the fact that its not based off of the sportier looking 5 door hatchback model.

zoom44

drivability will not be an issue i think. the combo of the direct injection and turbo + the gearing they have chosen gives great low to mid range power. take a look at the T and HP curves:



interesting tha they give 2 final drive ratios 1 for 1-4th gear and a 2nd for 5&6. that have something to do with the 3 shaft design?

Tirminyl

Come to think about it...this angers me very much. I wish my dyno looked like that stock! I wish my engine was worked over but I knew that before I bought it. As soon as the MS3 or MS8 (hell just an 8 with a nice reliable kit available) is released (if I don't go to anything else) I will trade in

r0tor

iTrader: (1)

at least they found that engine dyno they had hidden under a bunch of dust in the corner!!

Elara

Ike, it's a special edition, which means there might be as many as 4k of them made if you consider Mazda's other special editions. It won't be any kind of direct competion for the 8, since there will be so few of them made.

zoom44

well remember that this isnt the same as the ms protege done before. this is not take a production car and gather together tech from various sources and soup it up. this is the first in what will be a new line of mazdaspeed production cars for markets around the world. they havent done this quite the same before. they are goign to make more of thes than the normal "limitied" production they have done for specific markets in the past. from the press release:

MAZDA AT ITS BEST
Mazda's most technically advanced high performance sedan is about to take to the streets as the first company's first production car to carry the MPS or Mazdaspeed moniker in markets outside of Japan;

its a new direction for them. almost a honda/acura toyota/lexus thing but with an emphasis on better performance rather than luxury.

shelleys_man_06

Is this car really going to use GDI? I think that might be a first in the United States. Imagine if a rotary engine utilized GDI as well. I did a tech report for GDI and rotary engines back in my Design I class last year. I found some interesting results. Looking back to my earlier post, the MS6 may put Mazda in the same echelon as other auto manufacturers. The more image cars Mazda can have, the better.

s13lover

I believe Mitsubishi already has a GDI engine in the US market.

ZoomZoomH

iTrader: (1)

the 2.3L is selected for MS6 because that's Mazda's 'World engine', the V6 is only available in North America. Since they're selling this car worldwide, it makes sense for them to use the engine that's already being sold around the world, not to mention the AWD system they incorporated here is an existing one that's designed for the 2.3L (saves development cost)

besides the v6 is significantly heavier than a turbo 4cyl, the car is very front heavy with the v6 compared to the 4cyl.

Xyntax

*yawning*

Mazda should stick to cork-making business if this is their idea of "competing" in the market.

MikeW

255 hp up from 217, not going to happen with the 3.0, maybe with the 3.5 if Ford gets a higher torque capacity 6 speed automatic from AW (the one from the XC90 V8) otherwise the 3.5 will be something like 245hp and 240 ft-lbs.

Ford should add a $10 variable resonance valve so the 3.0 V6 will have some mid-range power (1500-4500), nissan altima 2.5 180ft-lbs@4000 rpm, 3.0 ford duratec 192 ft-lbs@5000 rpm, and can get better mileage too.

MikeW

Is this Haldex?
Sure sounds like it.

Differential + variable lockup clutch is better than just a differential or lockup clutch. Subaru WRX STi & EVO MR & Legacy 3.0 spec B, etc.
Mercedes Benz M class, open differential, fine for highway driving, unacceptable demands placed on brakes.
BMW 'new' X drive, replace open diff (ala MB) and use 100% rear drive + front axle transfer clutch, better for off roading in that the front and rear axles can be left coupled like crappy pickups and their 'off road drive' (not four wheel drive system)
also old skylines.
VW touareg-center differential + lockup. VW should not have to be stuck with 50/50 while Porsche get the 38/62

shelleys_man_06

I don't think MHI has a GDI running in the United States. From what I've heard, GDI requires a much higher octane rating than our 93 octane cat ****. In Europe and Asia perhaps, but not here. Also, Mitsubishi uses a GDI engine in its non-US market Space Star (corny name).

6speed8

According to Mazda it will be their fastest and best handling car - hmm. The '6' has a terrible turning circle diameter, much larger than any car in its class (size). I would imagine larger/wider tires on the MS so the turning circle would get even larger. The 6 speed shift pattern is terrible (had that pattern in my 2000 Celica GT-S). While I did not have too many problems with it, alot of people did especially the 1st to 2nd gear shift, sometimes it would get hung (caught) on the notch for reverse.

We'll have to wait and see what the FINAL HP figures are - lol. Let's see if Mazda gets them correct right off the top.

The headlights look a bit busy and the front seems a bit bulbous to me, although I think the non MS 6 is very nicely styled.

chinx

i think what the press release said is mazda's fastest and best handling **sedan**

and the 6's right now have 5 speeds, not 6