mazdaspeed 6 vs rx8
10-13-2005, 10:03 AM
#51
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We also must remember--the MS6 is aimed at a 'mature' buyer anyway--not necessarily a tuner. Its a solid buy for the price for someone that wants a car that is not as mainstream as a G35 or TL Acura and wants a few more features than the Legacy. For sports go elsewhere tho--yeah its quick, but not sporting.
10-13-2005, 10:54 AM
#52
zoom44,
That won't happen. Its best not to even bring it up. In 2002 we were promised a reflasher by early 2003. Its going on 2006 now...
Btw for those wondering about aftermarket...
There are about 140,000 6's made a year...and only 5,000 MPS 6's.
That won't happen. Its best not to even bring it up. In 2002 we were promised a reflasher by early 2003. Its going on 2006 now...
Btw for those wondering about aftermarket...
There are about 140,000 6's made a year...and only 5,000 MPS 6's.
10-13-2005, 03:14 PM
#53
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Originally Posted by IkeWRX
With Mazda's past ventures into turbocharging I doubt it will be that simple. Also, just raising boost on any FI engine without proper engine management is just asking for trouble. The direct injection is going to make things tough in the engine management department, we may never see a EMS for the MS6.
raising boost on any car without according fueling/ems mods is a bad idea.
10-13-2005, 07:56 PM
#54
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Originally Posted by IkeWRX
I really see no reason to get a Mazdaspeed 6 unless you're repulsed by the Legacy GT. The Legacy GT has a better AWD system, is more tuneable, and will have a much larger aftermarket. But it's really hard to say for sure since the MS6 has been repeatedly delayed.
The RX-8 will probably be a little slower, won't be as practical, and is a little higher maintenance (though I would expect some first year bugs with the MS6), but it will in all likelyhood handle much better. If speed and numbers on paper are something high up on your list you probably shouldn't be considering either car unless you're just a diehard Mazda fan.
The RX-8 will probably be a little slower, won't be as practical, and is a little higher maintenance (though I would expect some first year bugs with the MS6), but it will in all likelyhood handle much better. If speed and numbers on paper are something high up on your list you probably shouldn't be considering either car unless you're just a diehard Mazda fan.
Oh my gosh-I absolutely agree with this post. Am I going insane?
10-13-2005, 09:47 PM
#57
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The legacy doesn't have the superior chasis imo. Although it has a better awd system, I think that the aftermarket will embrace the 6 more when the ms6 comes out. The legacy doesn't have its own aftermarket following as it feeds off the sti wrx parts bin.
10-14-2005, 01:46 AM
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Originally Posted by DARKMAZ8
The legacy doesn't have the superior chasis imo. Although it has a better awd system, I think that the aftermarket will embrace the 6 more when the ms6 comes out. The legacy doesn't have its own aftermarket following as it feeds off the sti wrx parts bin.
and too late buddy, japan has already created a very massive aftermarket for the legacy turbo, the MPS 6/mazdaspeed 6 will have 5000 units total, good luck getting 1/1000th the aftermarket the legacy ALREADY has.
10-14-2005, 02:31 AM
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Why would one seriously consider a Legacy GT? It's a mish mash from the Subaru parts bin. It's like Frankenstein. The concept car was a little bit better but you know Subaru; they have to screw it up for actual production. That ridiculous new SUV is yet another prime example. I also find the SUV commercial to be hilariously arrogant. The POS suv goes by other suv's and those suv's crumble into dust. What a dumb, ill-conceived commercial.
10-14-2005, 06:24 AM
#61
Why would the aftermarket embrace a limited production car? They barely make products for the 6...a car thats produced in the 140k+ a year volume wise. The MPS 6 allocation is about 5-15k total cars. The 8 is a high volume car by comparison. The MPS 6 is not a Mazda 6 either...very of the few parts will work in both cars. Consider the MPS 6 a completely new model for all needs and purposes as far as the aftermarket is combined.
And you guys all know how the aftermarket feels about CAN...now throw in DFI to the mix.
Maybe I'm just negative about the aftermarket because its so lousy for the 6...even after 3 years. At least CP-E finally made long tube headers for the 6s...mmmm equal length goodness!
Don't you just want to dim the lights and put on some soft music?
And you guys all know how the aftermarket feels about CAN...now throw in DFI to the mix.
Maybe I'm just negative about the aftermarket because its so lousy for the 6...even after 3 years. At least CP-E finally made long tube headers for the 6s...mmmm equal length goodness!
Don't you just want to dim the lights and put on some soft music?
Last edited by crossbow; 10-14-2005 at 06:29 AM.
10-14-2005, 08:51 AM
#62
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I'm not saying that the aftermarket will embrace the ms6. The ms6 will help the 6 get more attention from the aftermarket. Look at how the msprotege helped the protege.
10-14-2005, 08:59 AM
#63
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Originally Posted by StealthFox
please don't make me grab a legacy b4 hyperrev book and smack you with 350 pages of aftermarket available for the legacy across the head.
and too late buddy, japan has already created a very massive aftermarket for the legacy turbo, the MPS 6/mazdaspeed 6 will have 5000 units total, good luck getting 1/1000th the aftermarket the legacy ALREADY has.
and too late buddy, japan has already created a very massive aftermarket for the legacy turbo, the MPS 6/mazdaspeed 6 will have 5000 units total, good luck getting 1/1000th the aftermarket the legacy ALREADY has.
Like I said, these are parts derive from the wrx and Sti. I havn't seen 1 new legacy yet and I barely see the old ones around either. If I do see them, they are stock. Why would someone with intentions of using aftermarket parts buy the Legacy over the Sti?
10-14-2005, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by DARKMAZ8
Like I said, these are parts derive from the wrx and Sti. I havn't seen 1 new legacy yet and I barely see the old ones around either. If I do see them, they are stock. Why would someone with intentions of using aftermarket parts buy the Legacy over the Sti?
10-14-2005, 10:43 AM
#65
DARK,
Aye...but any parts made for the 6 won't work on the MPS 6 (sans stuff like aero kits), and vice versa.
The two are, for all needs and purposes, completely different car models.
Example: Compare rear suspension subframes.
Top MPS 6, Bottom 6.
The following sections of the FSM have seperate sections for the MPS 6.
Mechanical, Lubrication, Cooling System, Intake System, Fuel System, Exhaust System, Rear Suspension, Transmission (A26MX-R), Steering/Power Steering.
Aye...but any parts made for the 6 won't work on the MPS 6 (sans stuff like aero kits), and vice versa.
The two are, for all needs and purposes, completely different car models.
Example: Compare rear suspension subframes.
Top MPS 6, Bottom 6.
The following sections of the FSM have seperate sections for the MPS 6.
Mechanical, Lubrication, Cooling System, Intake System, Fuel System, Exhaust System, Rear Suspension, Transmission (A26MX-R), Steering/Power Steering.
Last edited by crossbow; 10-14-2005 at 10:54 AM.
10-14-2005, 11:30 AM
#66
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I didn't realize how different the ms6 is. I still feel that the 6 will benefit from the ms6. Although, the 2.3 4cyl will get the most support from the aftermarket.
10-14-2005, 11:49 AM
#67
The 2.3 in the MPS 6 and the 6 are vastly different.
Different pistons, rods, crank, bearing, heads, cams, intake manifold, intake system, exhaust manifold, and fuel system.
The MPS 6 has a forged steel crank, forged rods, and supposedly forged pistons. (The 6i only has forged rods and hyperleutic pistons with a cast crank).
The biggest difference is the fact the MPS 6 has a direct fuel injection system (fuel sprayed directly into the cylinder instead of the heads/valves). This changes both the position of the valves, and the injectors.
Note location of injector and position of intake tract. (Left DFI, right standard)
http://www.mitsubishi-motors.co.jp/i...GDI/page5.html
DFI has a number of advantages, including greater combustion efficency, better power, better mileage, and the fuel serves to help cool down the intake charge/cylinder sleeves.
DFI requires a large increase in fuel pressure to atomize the fuel fully into the cylinder, which makes tuning more difficult.
The only similar feature between the two engines is that they use the same basic L3 engine block.
Different pistons, rods, crank, bearing, heads, cams, intake manifold, intake system, exhaust manifold, and fuel system.
The MPS 6 has a forged steel crank, forged rods, and supposedly forged pistons. (The 6i only has forged rods and hyperleutic pistons with a cast crank).
The biggest difference is the fact the MPS 6 has a direct fuel injection system (fuel sprayed directly into the cylinder instead of the heads/valves). This changes both the position of the valves, and the injectors.
Note location of injector and position of intake tract. (Left DFI, right standard)
http://www.mitsubishi-motors.co.jp/i...GDI/page5.html
DFI has a number of advantages, including greater combustion efficency, better power, better mileage, and the fuel serves to help cool down the intake charge/cylinder sleeves.
DFI requires a large increase in fuel pressure to atomize the fuel fully into the cylinder, which makes tuning more difficult.
The only similar feature between the two engines is that they use the same basic L3 engine block.
Last edited by crossbow; 10-14-2005 at 11:52 AM.
10-17-2005, 04:35 AM
#69
Stuck in a love triangle
The Mazdaspeed 6 has more torque than horsepower. So right away when you're test driving one, you're going to feel a hell of a difference in acceleration than what you're used to in the RX-8...it'll push you back into your seat for sure.
With 280 lb-ft torque, 274 hp, and ~3600 curb weight...I'm assuming that it's going to out perform the RX-8 in all areas except for launches. Better street start, 30-50, 50-70, passing power, and so on. This is the same problem the RX-8 has against most cars. As a daily driver the Mazdaspeed 6 is going to have better acceleration than an RX-8. But from a complete stop, the RX-8 should still have slightly better times when properly launched...and better handling, as usual.
I still wish Mazda had some ***** and turbocharged the 3.0 liter V6 Mazda 6s instead of their Mazda 6i 2.3 liter engine. They really would have had a monster on their hands with that. But the RX-8 would probably have been completely blown out of the water had they done that.
With 280 lb-ft torque, 274 hp, and ~3600 curb weight...I'm assuming that it's going to out perform the RX-8 in all areas except for launches. Better street start, 30-50, 50-70, passing power, and so on. This is the same problem the RX-8 has against most cars. As a daily driver the Mazdaspeed 6 is going to have better acceleration than an RX-8. But from a complete stop, the RX-8 should still have slightly better times when properly launched...and better handling, as usual.
I still wish Mazda had some ***** and turbocharged the 3.0 liter V6 Mazda 6s instead of their Mazda 6i 2.3 liter engine. They really would have had a monster on their hands with that. But the RX-8 would probably have been completely blown out of the water had they done that.
Last edited by JeRKy 8 Owner; 10-17-2005 at 04:39 AM.
10-17-2005, 07:57 AM
#70
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Originally Posted by JeRKy 8 Owner
I still wish Mazda had some ***** and turbocharged the 3.0 liter V6 Mazda 6s instead of their Mazda 6i 2.3 liter engine. They really would have had a monster on their hands with that. But the RX-8 would probably have been completely blown out of the water had they done that.
10-17-2005, 12:09 PM
#73
The 2.3 is as much a mazda motor as its a ford motor. Both divisions have put development time into the platform.
If you can call the 2.3 a Mazda motor, you can also call the 3.0 a porsche motor...as porsche engineers spent a long time designing the duratec v6 alongside ford.
If you can call the 2.3 a Mazda motor, you can also call the 3.0 a porsche motor...as porsche engineers spent a long time designing the duratec v6 alongside ford.
10-17-2005, 03:54 PM
#74
Stuck in a love triangle
I did some searching and I only found one person on the Internet who has been trying to get their Mazda 6s (V6) turbo charged for over a year now. They've had twin turbo installed (with issues), and now they're changing it to a single turbo. It obviously hasn't been a very friendly installation.
When they finally manage to get everything stable and in going working order, I'm sure it's going to be a beast. It's too bad they don't have any aftermarket companies working on a bolt-on kit for the 6s, but then again...I can see how there wouldn't be much demand, as your typical Mazda 6 buyer probably doesn't even know what forced induction is.
When they finally manage to get everything stable and in going working order, I'm sure it's going to be a beast. It's too bad they don't have any aftermarket companies working on a bolt-on kit for the 6s, but then again...I can see how there wouldn't be much demand, as your typical Mazda 6 buyer probably doesn't even know what forced induction is.
10-17-2005, 05:17 PM
#75
Jerky,
Wagner is actually finalizing their single turbo bolt-on kit. The delay's been the freakin ECU
. They've had the manifold/piping/turbo done and ready to go for almost 8 months now. Early estimates are around 275-300 whp. (The duratec 3.0 V6 freaking loves FI, and the exhaust cam is almost crafted perfectly for it)
The 6i's do have a hiboost unit which outputs about 230/225 to the wheels which is available right now for sale.
http://forum.mazda6tech.com/viewtopic.php?t=3722
Wagner is actually finalizing their single turbo bolt-on kit. The delay's been the freakin ECU
. They've had the manifold/piping/turbo done and ready to go for almost 8 months now. Early estimates are around 275-300 whp. (The duratec 3.0 V6 freaking loves FI, and the exhaust cam is almost crafted perfectly for it)The 6i's do have a hiboost unit which outputs about 230/225 to the wheels which is available right now for sale.
http://forum.mazda6tech.com/viewtopic.php?t=3722