mazdaspeed 6 vs rx8
10-12-2005, 12:02 PM
#27
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Dunno why I'm bothering since the thread starter appears to be trolling...
The RX8 weighs 2880-3053 pounds (depending on trim) while the MS6 will reportedly weigh over 3600 pounds. If AWD and engine output are the only specs you're interested in, then the RX8 is not the car for you. This is what I wrote in an RX8 vs MS6 thread from last January:
Originally Posted by pinoyx8
even though the mazdaspeed 6 may have better with specs, i still want to believe that the rx8 is better. i don't know how to convince myself that its better other than its looks
Originally Posted by deslock
The 8 has never been about power; it's about balance. There is no other 4 door RWD car under 3000 pounds currently in production (Oct 2005 edit: this is only true in the USA) and even more important than the weight is how it's distributed, how low it is, and how it's concentrated towards the center of the car. Then there's the tight steering, responsive throttle, short-throw shifter, etc... despite its lack of low-end oomph, the RX8 delivers true sports-car fun in a practical, comfortable ride. Anyone who feels threatened by the MS6 doesn't understand the 8.
10-12-2005, 12:10 PM
#28
Steiner,
You haven't owned a mazda 6 to realize how long it took the car to get any mods...even simple ones like intakes or catbacks. Now were dealing with a car that is being produced in a tiny fraction of the numbers of the primary 6i/6s 's.
The engine and drivetrain in the MPS 6 are completely unique, as well as the rear suspension, and none of these components are cross compatible with the standard 6. Any part will have to be designed specifically for the MPS 6 and won't work on any of the other cars or engines.
Though the block is the same, the internals, fuel system (direct fuel injection), are completely different. The rear suspension is completely different, and parts can't be swapped. The transmission is also unique in the mazda lineup. The only similarity between the standard 6, and an MPS 6 is that the engine block is an L3.
Expecting a nice aftermarket for an MPS 6 is foolhardy at best. Yes there will be some parts, but they are going to be neither plentiful, nor inexpensive.
You haven't owned a mazda 6 to realize how long it took the car to get any mods...even simple ones like intakes or catbacks. Now were dealing with a car that is being produced in a tiny fraction of the numbers of the primary 6i/6s 's.
The engine and drivetrain in the MPS 6 are completely unique, as well as the rear suspension, and none of these components are cross compatible with the standard 6. Any part will have to be designed specifically for the MPS 6 and won't work on any of the other cars or engines.
Though the block is the same, the internals, fuel system (direct fuel injection), are completely different. The rear suspension is completely different, and parts can't be swapped. The transmission is also unique in the mazda lineup. The only similarity between the standard 6, and an MPS 6 is that the engine block is an L3.
Expecting a nice aftermarket for an MPS 6 is foolhardy at best. Yes there will be some parts, but they are going to be neither plentiful, nor inexpensive.
10-12-2005, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by crossbow
Steiner,
You haven't owned a mazda 6 to realize how long it took the car to get any mods...even simple ones like intakes or catbacks. Now were dealing with a car that is being produced in a tiny fraction of the numbers of the primary 6i/6s 's.
The engine and drivetrain in the MPS 6 are completely unique, as well as the rear suspension, and none of these components are cross compatible with the standard 6. Any part will have to be designed specifically for the MPS 6 and won't work on any of the other cars or engines.
Though the block is the same, the internals, fuel system (direct fuel injection), are completely different. The rear suspension is completely different, and parts can't be swapped. The transmission is also unique in the mazda lineup. The only similarity between the standard 6, and an MPS 6 is that the engine block is an L3.
Expecting a nice aftermarket for an MPS 6 is foolhardy at best. Yes there will be some parts, but they are going to be neither plentiful, nor inexpensive.
You haven't owned a mazda 6 to realize how long it took the car to get any mods...even simple ones like intakes or catbacks. Now were dealing with a car that is being produced in a tiny fraction of the numbers of the primary 6i/6s 's.
The engine and drivetrain in the MPS 6 are completely unique, as well as the rear suspension, and none of these components are cross compatible with the standard 6. Any part will have to be designed specifically for the MPS 6 and won't work on any of the other cars or engines.
Though the block is the same, the internals, fuel system (direct fuel injection), are completely different. The rear suspension is completely different, and parts can't be swapped. The transmission is also unique in the mazda lineup. The only similarity between the standard 6, and an MPS 6 is that the engine block is an L3.
Expecting a nice aftermarket for an MPS 6 is foolhardy at best. Yes there will be some parts, but they are going to be neither plentiful, nor inexpensive.
Yep, the direct fuel injection alone is going to deter a lot of tunering companies from even bothering with the car.
10-12-2005, 12:53 PM
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Thanks for the info Crossbow. I didn't know. Does Mazdaspeed sell a respectable line of bolt-ons for their cars and the rest of the Mazda line...like Mopar or Nismo for example? I had a coworker with a Mazdaspeed Miata and he said there was some software coming out from Mazdaspeed he was planning to buy. I was sorta assuming they would do the same thing for the MS6...but yeah...it doesn't sound like it's an apples to apples comparison if the MS6 has all these new drivetrain parts and engine technology. If anything Mazdaspeed should be able to beat most everybody to market with their line of aftermarket parts for the car.
10-12-2005, 02:29 PM
#32
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Originally Posted by mdaj
^^^No. Whatever you see on the Mazdaspeed car is what Mazda sells.
10-12-2005, 03:28 PM
#33
Steiner,
So far for the 6 at least...every single "mazdaspeed part" (excluding the short throw shifter) is just a relabeling of another aftermarket part.
Springs are ebiach prolines
Sway bars are ebiach sways
Exhaust catback was bosal
Clutch was a spec (I believe)
Mazdaspeed Wheels were just relabeled Ray's.
Coilovers are Autoexec with different spring rates. (Horrible spring rates I might add)
I won't be surprised if the flywheels are exedy's.
Considering some of these parts come with no warranty whatsoever, its actually better just to get the aftermarket parts directly, as they at least come with some sort of build quality warranty.
I've been extremely disappointed with the words "mazdaspeed" in the past 2 years, as they don't actually seem to reflect the term whatsoever. Mazdaspeed seems to be a route to make more money out of relabeling a product and jacking up the price. This wouldn't be so bad if there was some sort of attached warranty...but with most of the products there isn't.
I won't get into the whole mazdaspeed car's catagory...they always come out right before mazda completely reworks the chassis or design of the vehicle...usually testing a variety of new technologies on them . Kinda of a way to throw out excess inventory and provide realworld test mules at the same time.
This makes since if your aware of the changes happening to the 6 in 07/08...bigger v6 (3.5 liter), chassis and body changes (its getting larger in every dimension...think bigger then an altima/millenia), with the DFI engine/AWD system being tested to go into the new cross sport and other mazda lineups.
The MPS 6 is a good buy though...it barely costs anymore then a standard 6, and you get a crazy amount of extra's. I don't really know how it happened, but some of these new GT 6's are costing almost 30k fully loaded. When the standard 6s costs 28-30k, a 30-32k Mazdaspeed 6 is a freaking unbelievable steal.
So far for the 6 at least...every single "mazdaspeed part" (excluding the short throw shifter) is just a relabeling of another aftermarket part.
Springs are ebiach prolines
Sway bars are ebiach sways
Exhaust catback was bosal
Clutch was a spec (I believe)
Mazdaspeed Wheels were just relabeled Ray's.
Coilovers are Autoexec with different spring rates. (Horrible spring rates I might add)
I won't be surprised if the flywheels are exedy's.
Considering some of these parts come with no warranty whatsoever, its actually better just to get the aftermarket parts directly, as they at least come with some sort of build quality warranty.
I've been extremely disappointed with the words "mazdaspeed" in the past 2 years, as they don't actually seem to reflect the term whatsoever. Mazdaspeed seems to be a route to make more money out of relabeling a product and jacking up the price. This wouldn't be so bad if there was some sort of attached warranty...but with most of the products there isn't.
I won't get into the whole mazdaspeed car's catagory...they always come out right before mazda completely reworks the chassis or design of the vehicle...usually testing a variety of new technologies on them . Kinda of a way to throw out excess inventory and provide realworld test mules at the same time.
This makes since if your aware of the changes happening to the 6 in 07/08...bigger v6 (3.5 liter), chassis and body changes (its getting larger in every dimension...think bigger then an altima/millenia), with the DFI engine/AWD system being tested to go into the new cross sport and other mazda lineups.
The MPS 6 is a good buy though...it barely costs anymore then a standard 6, and you get a crazy amount of extra's. I don't really know how it happened, but some of these new GT 6's are costing almost 30k fully loaded. When the standard 6s costs 28-30k, a 30-32k Mazdaspeed 6 is a freaking unbelievable steal.
Last edited by crossbow; 10-12-2005 at 03:31 PM.
10-12-2005, 04:01 PM
#36
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Originally Posted by BlueEyes
FWD 274 hp car would be far from nice. Now a RWD Mazda 3 with 274 hp, now we're talking!!
10-12-2005, 04:16 PM
#37
Originally Posted by crossbow
Steiner,
So far for the 6 at least...every single "mazdaspeed part" (excluding the short throw shifter) is just a relabeling of another aftermarket part.
Springs are ebiach prolines
Sway bars are ebiach sways
Exhaust catback was bosal
Clutch was a spec (I believe)
Mazdaspeed Wheels were just relabeled Ray's.
Coilovers are Autoexec with different spring rates. (Horrible spring rates I might add)
I won't be surprised if the flywheels are exedy's.
Considering some of these parts come with no warranty whatsoever, its actually better just to get the aftermarket parts directly, as they at least come with some sort of build quality warranty.
I've been extremely disappointed with the words "mazdaspeed" in the past 2 years, as they don't actually seem to reflect the term whatsoever. Mazdaspeed seems to be a route to make more money out of relabeling a product and jacking up the price. This wouldn't be so bad if there was some sort of attached warranty...but with most of the products there isn't.
I won't get into the whole mazdaspeed car's catagory...they always come out right before mazda completely reworks the chassis or design of the vehicle...usually testing a variety of new technologies on them . Kinda of a way to throw out excess inventory and provide realworld test mules at the same time.
This makes since if your aware of the changes happening to the 6 in 07/08...bigger v6 (3.5 liter), chassis and body changes (its getting larger in every dimension...think bigger then an altima/millenia), with the DFI engine/AWD system being tested to go into the new cross sport and other mazda lineups.
The MPS 6 is a good buy though...it barely costs anymore then a standard 6, and you get a crazy amount of extra's. I don't really know how it happened, but some of these new GT 6's are costing almost 30k fully loaded. When the standard 6s costs 28-30k, a 30-32k Mazdaspeed 6 is a freaking unbelievable steal.
So far for the 6 at least...every single "mazdaspeed part" (excluding the short throw shifter) is just a relabeling of another aftermarket part.
Springs are ebiach prolines
Sway bars are ebiach sways
Exhaust catback was bosal
Clutch was a spec (I believe)
Mazdaspeed Wheels were just relabeled Ray's.
Coilovers are Autoexec with different spring rates. (Horrible spring rates I might add)
I won't be surprised if the flywheels are exedy's.
Considering some of these parts come with no warranty whatsoever, its actually better just to get the aftermarket parts directly, as they at least come with some sort of build quality warranty.
I've been extremely disappointed with the words "mazdaspeed" in the past 2 years, as they don't actually seem to reflect the term whatsoever. Mazdaspeed seems to be a route to make more money out of relabeling a product and jacking up the price. This wouldn't be so bad if there was some sort of attached warranty...but with most of the products there isn't.
I won't get into the whole mazdaspeed car's catagory...they always come out right before mazda completely reworks the chassis or design of the vehicle...usually testing a variety of new technologies on them . Kinda of a way to throw out excess inventory and provide realworld test mules at the same time.
This makes since if your aware of the changes happening to the 6 in 07/08...bigger v6 (3.5 liter), chassis and body changes (its getting larger in every dimension...think bigger then an altima/millenia), with the DFI engine/AWD system being tested to go into the new cross sport and other mazda lineups.
The MPS 6 is a good buy though...it barely costs anymore then a standard 6, and you get a crazy amount of extra's. I don't really know how it happened, but some of these new GT 6's are costing almost 30k fully loaded. When the standard 6s costs 28-30k, a 30-32k Mazdaspeed 6 is a freaking unbelievable steal.
10-12-2005, 05:41 PM
#38
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Originally Posted by 280RX-8
I think they offer more parts, though, like better clutches, flywheels, and suspension parts that are not included on the stock Mazdaspeed vehicles. I'm nott 100% on that, but some of the parts were available w/warranty, and some were marked for comp./off-road only.
10-12-2005, 07:07 PM
#39
Bummed, but bring on OU!
Originally Posted by BlueEyes
FWD 274 hp car would be far from nice. Now a RWD Mazda 3 with 274 hp, now we're talking!!
10-12-2005, 08:15 PM
#40
The mazdaspeed 3 is supposed to be closer to 220-240 bhp, with an LSD. Would make for a very good SRT-4/Redline/SS Cobalt fighter. It would be extremely similar to the old MSP, which is still a fantastic car.
The Mazdaspeed parts for the 6 are not for the MPS 6. Its best to think of the MPS 6 as a different car from the 6, and then it makes a bit more sense.
The Mazdaspeed parts for the 6 are not for the MPS 6. Its best to think of the MPS 6 as a different car from the 6, and then it makes a bit more sense.
10-12-2005, 10:03 PM
#41
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I sometimes still find rumors of AWD for the MS3 in JDM mags. Dunno how that will turn out. Power... we'll see. Heard about mild de-tuning, but sometimes the power is rated very close... 240 vs 274. Either way this is another application of the same engine which is rumored to also be used in the upcoming Crossport. It may take some time, but there'll be some aftermarket for this engine as well.
10-13-2005, 01:01 AM
#43
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Originally Posted by StealthFox
starting to think that aftermarket may be limited after reading some posts.
it is a turbo though keep in mind if all else fails raise boost haha
it is a turbo though keep in mind if all else fails raise boost haha
10-13-2005, 02:40 AM
#44
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Originally Posted by IkeWRX
With Mazda's past ventures into turbocharging I doubt it will be that simple. Also, just raising boost on any FI engine without proper engine management is just asking for trouble. The direct injection is going to make things tough in the engine management department, we may never see a EMS for the MS6.
10-13-2005, 04:08 AM
#45
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Originally Posted by DARKMAZ8
I beg to differ....I've seen many old mazda 4cyl engines boosted over 20-30 psi with 400+whp. Upping the boost is not the problem with the mzr....The tranny on the other hand will have to be reinforced.
1.) That is NOT with the stock turbo.
2.) It's also NOT with the stock internals.
3.) If it is on a stock motor, it won't be for long...
What we're refering to here is just putting a boost controller on the car, which may or may not work out well, but you're only talking a couple PSI at best.
10-13-2005, 08:54 AM
#48
The big tuning options for the MPS 6 are going to be...
1) Anything that reduces weight (its 3650 lbs loaded)
2) A front mounted intercooler (Mazda's TMIC is idiotic in its placement with no venting)
3) A boost controller NOT to raise boost, but to provide for consistent boost to redline.
4) Lighter and wider 17x8-17x8.5 inch rims, with a tire size fitting a car of this bulk (235/45/17 as per the evo/sti lineup would be a good start, instead of 215/45/18 on 18x7)
From looking at the power figures, the car is making max power at 5500 rpm (not max torque, max power). Since the car redlines at 6700, one could assume that mazda is flooding the cats with fuel, and dialing back the boost past 5500...or they're using a pretty small turbo to minimize lag. A boost controller could keep the computer from dialing it back past 5500.
On a happy note, the L3 engine internals on the MPS 6 appear to all be forged (not 100% on the pistons though). Its also got a coolant based oil cooler, don't know if its using a larger radiator...if not, mazdamotorsports sells ron davis triple core radiators for the application.
1) Anything that reduces weight (its 3650 lbs loaded)
2) A front mounted intercooler (Mazda's TMIC is idiotic in its placement with no venting)
3) A boost controller NOT to raise boost, but to provide for consistent boost to redline.
4) Lighter and wider 17x8-17x8.5 inch rims, with a tire size fitting a car of this bulk (235/45/17 as per the evo/sti lineup would be a good start, instead of 215/45/18 on 18x7)
From looking at the power figures, the car is making max power at 5500 rpm (not max torque, max power). Since the car redlines at 6700, one could assume that mazda is flooding the cats with fuel, and dialing back the boost past 5500...or they're using a pretty small turbo to minimize lag. A boost controller could keep the computer from dialing it back past 5500.
On a happy note, the L3 engine internals on the MPS 6 appear to all be forged (not 100% on the pistons though). Its also got a coolant based oil cooler, don't know if its using a larger radiator...if not, mazdamotorsports sells ron davis triple core radiators for the application.
Last edited by crossbow; 10-13-2005 at 08:56 AM.
10-13-2005, 09:55 AM
#49
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Originally Posted by Japan8
I sometimes still find rumors of AWD for the MS3 in JDM mags. Dunno how that will turn out. .