nycgps

iTrader: (1)

Not for Racing, just demonstration.

http://www.mazda.com/publicity/relea...5/110520a.html

Seriously, WHAT THE F! Just because you Pistons suck *** stop hating Rotary Engines !!!

fuztupnz

iTrader: (4)

I wish i could go.

Awesome that they're doing a demo and driving through town the day before.

paimon.soror

iTrader: (15)

Anyone know if there will be a live feed? Man I would love to see that.

tjbourgoyne

Cool. "Due to a change in the race regulations...." should read, "Due to the 787b bad assness a change in the race regulations...."

dynamho

Can't get enough of the that wail.
It just triggers emotional goosebumps.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

Make that "Because European manufacture's *** got kick so hard, they completely lost their pride, which happens all the time but they're also the biggest sponsor of the race, a change in the race regulations ... "

MattMPS

Throw away the word "european" and insert the word " french&germans".

they rules Le Mans 24h since many years.....

BTW is disappointing not to see a Mazda into the race.......

tjbourgoyne

I wonder how much the rule change had an effect on the RX7. I could see from a marketing angle the visibility/sales are lost but as for R&D would it have made that much of a difference?

Mazmart

iTrader: (12)

I'm going to correct this one more time (Just because I love you guys and don't want you to be ignorant ) :

The rule change had nothing to do with Mazda and represented no bias against them. They (Mazda) were not a great threat. They did an excellent job in assessing the requirements to win; made the body, engine, suspension, driver etc changes. The lack of durability of their competition and the great overall strategy with a dash of luck brought home the overall win, not pure pace on Mazda's part.

Paul.

tjbourgoyne

Thanks, I don't know all the ends and outs of it. My question though has to do more on how it may or may not have impacted the RX7 from sales/RD if the rules would have stayed intact for several more years. Assuming they likely would have done well enough to generate interests.

HiFlite999

iTrader: (2)

One of the funny/ironic parts to me is that in many accounts of how they won that year, getting better gas mileage than the competition is oft mentioned. Unfortunately, regardless of the sport, the "little guys" in it increasingly have no chance at all. The Indy 500 used to be great fun in part because of the huge variety of technologies employed. 4-cyl turbo Offy's, n/a and turbo Ford Cosworths, Novi's, alcohol and gasoline, 2 and 4 wheel drive, stock block pushrod V-8's, rear and front engines, it was all there. Run what you brung, baby! Now? Blah, generic sameness. It's all about the sportspersonalities, who also strive to put on the exact same demeanor for the barely interested TV audience.

At least for now, there's still one unique technology on the street, the RX's.

pistonhater

so out of curiosity - and ignorance -.....what were the regulations? How did the regulations affect the use of the 787B?

I would assume regulations probably had to do with the measuring of the rotary engine displacement vs the piston counterparts, weight, etc.

Thanks.

999miki

+1

Just by looking on results from JSPC and WSC of 787 and 787Bs, its easy to see, that Mazda didn´t have the pace of the competitors. Despite being much lighter.
But win is win and huge accomplishment for rotary engine

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

well, Im not making things up, they did ban Rotary Engines.



Well I know its really a combination of things ---- good plan, reliable car that year, other team messed up ---- but obviously BMWs don't cared, they can't let a Japanese company win again, even the chance might be slim. So there you go GTFO of my game

HiFlite999

iTrader: (2)

According to Wikipedia, they outright banned it: "At the end of the season, the Fédération Internationale de l'Automobile (FIA) outlawed the use of Wankel-type rotary engines as a way to sway teams to the 3.5L Formula One (F1) engines that had become their preferred platform."

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

to sum it up, they just "don't want to" have a separated set of rules just for Rotary Engine, its just an excuse to ban it from playing altogether.

HiFlite999

iTrader: (2)

Had it been a 4-rotor Mercedes C-111 (yes they made some rotary engines) that won, the result would have been Fabulous Acclaim! But upstarts aren't supposed to win, so off with their heads. Bleah.

Mazmart

iTrader: (12)

Her you go:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_24_Hours_of_Le_Mans

It's pretty simple: In 92 if you wanted to run a 2.0 turbo in group C you could not, a 4.5 V8, you could not, a 3.0 twin turbo, you could not. It had nothing to do with fear of rotary dominance

Paul.

j_tso

Anything that wasn't a naturally aspirated 3.5L V10 was banned.

Porsche and Nissan turbos and Jaguar V12s were disqualified as well. Group C was a fuel based set of rules, dictating the amount of fuel that was allowed to be consumed during a race. Jaguar took 2nd, 3rd, and 4th at the 1991 Le Mans, they could have won but had to pull back because their fuel calculation was off.

Rotaries shine best in endurance races, that's what Le Mans and Daytona proved. Similarly in the early 80s, Mazda entered a 13B in IMSA GTO and it was down around 300hp from the Ford and Chevy V8s, but they stayed out of the pits and won their class at Daytona and the 6 hour races. They never got a podium finish in the sprint races.

999miki

Depends what year you mean

In 1991 and before, rules were actually pretty good for rotary. 4 rotor engine purely by displacement per revolution should be compared with 5232cc piston engine but FIA was so kind, that taken into account inefficiency of rotary and classed R26B as 4708cc which is very appropriate.

But it doesn´t matter, as group C was build around fuel consumption formula.

Weight regulations... till the 1989, all group C1 cars weight 800 kg, 1990 C1 cars 900 kg, 1991 C1 cars renamed to C2 and weight was increased to 1000 kg but Mazda was supposedly allowed to run at much lower weight

C1 cars were renamed to C2 as new C1 were literally F1s with enclosed bodywork - 3.5 L atmo engines, weight 750 kg, no fuel regulations and fall of sport prototype racing

Roidz

j_tso

Here are a couple of good articles from Speedhunters of Mazda's 91 and 92 Le Mans efforts:
RETROSPECTIVE>> 55 SPECIAL - MAZDA 787B AND 1991 LE MANS
RETROSPECTIVE>> MAZDA MX-R01 AND 1992 - THE END OF THE LINE

And after Ecclestone totally screwed WSC, other engines were allowed back into Le Mans like this 20B RX-7 silouette in 1994. Jim Downing also entered a rotary powered Kudzu in the later 90s.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

I bet if Mazda didn't win that year, everything will go as usual.

Mazmart

iTrader: (12)

We (Downing Atlanta), in conjunction with Mazdaspeed Japan also won our class in 96 with a 3 rotor Kudzu. Wonderful car.

Paul.

pistonhater

Thanks for sharing such interesting information.

And after watching a few videos all I can say is.... what a great sound that car had!!!