ASH8

Mazda president Hisakazu Imaki was in Australia last week and confirmed that the First Rotary Hybrid will go on sale to the public in 2008 in the MAZDA 5, it will be a HYDROGEN / GASOLINE ROTARY HYBRID.

He Also commented on the future of the Rotary engine.......

Lifted from CARSguide.com.au...

"As for the future of the petrol rotary engine, which faces a tough fight as emission rules become stricter, Imaki says he has a team working on making that engine greener.

"That very topic came up in internal discussions. I understand our R&D people are doing a lot of improvements. All I can say is that I will be looking forward to future developments."

The Mazda RX-8 sportscar is the only model in the Mazda range to be fitted with a rotary powerplant, but Mazda says the engine is important to the company.

"I know the public and also the media views the rotary as a brand icon of Mazda," he says.

Mazda has no plan to fit a rotary engine to the MX-5, even though the light, high-revving engine may suit the roadster.

MX-5 program manager Takao Kijima has ruled out a rotary engine and even a turbo boost for the convertible sportscar.

He says it is more likely the car may be fitted with a slightly larger engine, probably a 2.3-litre four-cylinder with direct injection technology to give the car a mid-life boost."

http://carsguide.news.com.au/story/0...-21822,00.html

Renesis_8

Thanks for sharing the news ASH8!
________
CHILDREN AVANDIA

ASH8

Interesting to also see that MX-5 program manager Takao Kijima, has yet again said NO to any Rotary Powered MX-5 in the future.....
And No turbo MX-5,BUT, we may put in the 2.3 Litre DI Engine to give the car a mid-life boost, why not add the turbo from the Mazdaspeed 3, or 6, or CX-7?

ASH8

No Problemo Mate....

I also wonder what the "lot of improvements" that Mazda R&D Department are doing to
emissions, I was personally of the opinion that they had gone about as far as they can with the Wankel, perhaps they have developed more "Hang ON" exhaust recirculation devices....

CarAndDriver

Thanks for the news.

Grizzly8

Interesting news , but a rotary hybrid combo will cause even greater uncertainty amongst the non rotary car buying public .

Most people knowlegde of rotary engines is very little , but its even less for a Hybrid one IMHO .

And no word on a Mazdaspeed RX8 ?


Michael

Grizzly8

If the Mazda president Hisakazu Imaki , ever comes to the Goldcoast i will have to buy him some rice wine( SUKI ) and take him to Hollywood girls and grill him for some answers on the Mazdaspeed RX8

Michael

Raptor2k

That's it, Axial Flow/Pettit, here I come.

TerenceC

I thought I read it somewhere that Mazda is working on direct injection on to the rotory engine. It sure did improve power(and much less ping resistence so you can run insane compression or ignition timing) and emission on piston engine, I'm very curious to see it work on rotory.

Terence

rotarygod

I think we'll see a direct injected Renesis in the near future. That will certainly make the engine "greener" as well as potentially improving many other areas.

brillo

more rotary engines in production = cheaper production costs

cheaper production costs = more money for rotary upgrades

rotary upgrades = all aluminum direct injection engine

willhave8

I have to bite knowing I am jumping into 'search' land but what is direct injection? Is there a RG treatise on it???

DOMINION

Sounds like Mazda is not even going to think about Turbo or FI anymore.
Dam you greener people!!!

BaronVonBigmeat

I wonder if the hybrid rotary will be capable of running say, 5% hydrogen when it's running in gasoline mode. As far as I know, you can't get any sort of reasonable range from running pure hydrogen, and it cuts your power roughly in half anyhow.

But, according to this guy, the flame speed of hydrogen is roughly ten times faster than gasoline. Which makes it extremely attractive for adding to another fuel, or other fuels that you normally wouldn't want to put into an engine. According to him, adding a little hydrogen allows you to run nearly anything flammable, although it only makes economic sense to burn it with gasoline or CNG.

Adding H2 also has some interesting implications. Since your mostly-gasoline mixture now has a much faster flame speed, you don't have to fire the spark plug before top dead center like you normally would (this is done so that the mixture has time to burn decently). You retard the timing so that you fire right at TDC (or maybe it was slightly after, I can't remember). Anyway, the point he made was, firing before TDC means your piston is trying to go up for a short time while your burning mixture is trying to push it back down. With a H2/gasoline mixture, you can retard the timing and put less stress on the engine. Or raise the RPM limit. The example he gave was for a piston engine, but I imagine it would hold true for a rotary. If any engine needs a fuel with a fast-spreading flame, it's the rotary, with it's elongated chambers.

In the video, he gives the following numbers: For any size gas tank, you would need a 10,000 PSI tank for CNG or a 40,000 PSI tank for H2, to have the same amount of stored energy (assuming equal tank sizes as the gasoline tank). But, you only need to add 5%~7% hydrogen to get it's benefits. In other words, running pure H2 doesn't make sense.

The RX-8 has a 16 gallon gasoline tank. So you'd need around .8~1.12 "gallons" equivalent of hydrogen. 40,000 PSI ain't happening anytime soon though, so let's assume 5,000 PSI from a carbon fiber tank. That gives us 1/8 the energy density of gasoline, we need about 1 gallon equivalent, so the hydrogen cylinder has to have a 8 gallon capacity @ 5,000 PSI. 8 gallons = 1,848 cubic inches. That would be a cylinder about...10" x 24". That would fit in the trunk and still leave us some space.

(Then again, maybe they're going to use one of those fancy metal hydride systems or something.)

I'd like to rip the DVD and torrent it to anyone who's interested...but I don't have a DVD drive on my computer.

Tirminyl

I like the way this man thinks!

Renesis_8

all aluminum engine = lighter engine

lighter engine = lighter car

lighter car = less fuel consumption

less fuel consumption = err.. better emissions... haha
________
Vapir one v5.0

rotarygod

Our engines do not have direct injection. Their fuel injectors are in the intake and mix with the incoming air before it enters the engine. As the rotor turns it compresses both the air and the fuel together. some of this fuel can stick to the sides of the housings of the rotor face.

In direct injection, the fuel is injected into the engine right before the ignition point. It is injected after the rotor compresses the incoming air. No fuel is introduced in the intake manifold and only air is compressed as the rotor turns.

The advantages to this are that the combustion of the fuel can be more precisely controlled. Fuel is far less likely to stick to housings or rotors and more of it is likely to combust. It is more efficient which makes it cleaner burning, more fuel efficient, and more powerful.

The disadvantage is that it is very complicated to pull off successfully. Mazda has been playing with rotor dish shapes and injector locations and spray patterns for years to determine the proper setup. Timing of the fuel injection event is also very critical as you have a very short amount of time to inject sucessfully. It is much more critical than in conventional fuel injection. It also takes special fuel injectors that can withstand combustion chamber temperatures. Aftermarket ecu's can not at this time control the specialized timing events of direct injected engines so don't expect a piggyback capable of controlling it any time soon. It will happen one day though.

Diesel engines are direct injected. Due to the shorter amount of time necessary to inject the proper amount of fuel and the need for a finer mist, diesel fuel pressures have gone sky high with some approaching 23,000 psi!!! Even the old mechanical diesel injectors were high in comparison to standard gasoline fuel injection and they still ran at over 200 psi. The average for a fuel injected gasoline engine is between 38-42 psi.

What we will see in the future as more gasoline engines move towards direct injection is that fuel pressures will also rise. They will probably always stay below what diesel pressures are but they will go higher than they are now standard. Slowly gasoline engines are going to become closer and closer in the way they work to diesel engines.

There are many great things left to come and there is always the rotary equivalent! We still have much hope.

saturn

Sweet. Now I'll be able to fill up at all the hydrogen stations in my neighborhood. Oh wait, there aren't any....this is useless....

ASH8

Gee 'Saturn' you are one negative dude...I have never read ANY of your post's that does not give me any other impression....with respect of course....

rotarygod

I've never been a fan of hydrogen as a fuel so the only thing that interests me is that the rotary will continue to survive. I always knew it would though.

ASH8

As far as I know the Rotary Hydro/Gasoline Hybrid will not have any fuel blending capability, it will either be one or the other.

So, even if their is no Hydro Station in your local area you could still run entirely on petrol/gas.

I am not sure if the system will be load (RPM) based controlled by a ECU...
For example low speed/RPM under say 50KMH (30MPH) Hydrogen fuel use, auto switching to gasoline for High RPM/ speed over 50-60KMH.

RG may need to correct me here..

Grizzly8

Can Aluminium with stand the rotaries heat?

Cheers
Michael

rotarygod

That's what your rotor housings are made of!

Racing Beat manufactures aluminum end and center housings for the older rotaries for a very substantial price and Mazda has built all aluminum engines as test beds several times. Cast iron is just much cheaper.

rotarygod

With current ecu technology, they could do whatever they wanted. They could have a cutoff point based on rpm, vehicle speed, or even load. They could even give you a switch to choose. Hydrogen could mix with gasoline but you need to be careful about how you do it. With the ecu power they have, they could do it if they wanted to.

ASH8

I think some years ago Mazda experimented with alloy intermediate housings (what the side seals ,corner seals and oil rings spin on) with an Steel compound face of a few millimetres in thickness, similar to how all alloy engines today have steel piston sleeves in the block. I think the obvious benefits were an even lighter rotary engine, but at the time the production costs and technology were cost prohibitive.. perhaps this will become a reality in a few more years...

I am like RG, hydrogen does not make me excited as a fuel alternative, BUT, I am happy to see the Rotary engine survive against ALL the pessimistic owners and members who want to see it fail.

In over 33 years since owning an RX3 10A I am in awe with what Mazda have done to this great engine, where every other manufacturer just gave UP!