may be wrong forum but I need your advise on a MS6.
04-11-2007, 09:03 AM
#28
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I guess I would question why someone would turn in a car after only 4k miles. I don't think anyone would take that huge of a depreciation hit unless there was something seriously wrong with the car, or it was a demo car, either way, I'm not sure I'd want to mess around with something like that.
04-11-2007, 09:39 AM
#29
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Originally Posted by Ike
Your understanding of AWD leaves a little something to be desired...
Road and Track :
Most complained it handled too much like a fwd car, and they could always feel its front-heavy weight bias. In trying to understand his own indifference to the Mazdaspeed6, Wolfkill said this: "For whatever reason, I just couldn't get excited about the Mazda. Not that it did anything wrong; but it simply didn't do enough right for me."
The AWD system has three algorithm maps: normal, sports, and snow. Based on inputs such as yaw rate, lateral g, wheel slippage, steering, and throttle angle rate of change, the computer picks what mode is appropriate. Drive torque is apportioned from a default setting of 100-percent front/zero rear in normal driving to a maximum 50/50 front/rear split on demand. A mechanical torque-sensing limited-slip rear differential divvies out torque between the rear wheels. The car's standard stability and traction control system help the front wheels behave. The added body reinforcements and AWD system add about 200 pounds over a front-drive, four-cylinder Mazda6.
The first R&T article is also a good read for the potential Speed6 buyer because it compares the Audi A4 2.0T, BMW 325xi, Infiniti G35x, Lexus IS250AWD, MazdaSpeed6, Subaru Legacy 2.5 GT spec.B, and Volvo S40 T5 AWD (they finished in that order, with the Mazda in 5th)
04-11-2007, 11:07 AM
#30
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Originally Posted by MazdaMonkey
Not at all, it is just that the car is normally a FWD car that can send the power back in traction-loss situations:
Road and Track :
Motor Trend :
The first R&T article is also a good read for the potential Speed6 buyer because it compares the Audi A4 2.0T, BMW 325xi, Infiniti G35x, Lexus IS250AWD, MazdaSpeed6, Subaru Legacy 2.5 GT spec.B, and Volvo S40 T5 AWD (they finished in that order, with the Mazda in 5th)
Road and Track :
Motor Trend :
The first R&T article is also a good read for the potential Speed6 buyer because it compares the Audi A4 2.0T, BMW 325xi, Infiniti G35x, Lexus IS250AWD, MazdaSpeed6, Subaru Legacy 2.5 GT spec.B, and Volvo S40 T5 AWD (they finished in that order, with the Mazda in 5th)
04-11-2007, 12:13 PM
#31
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For the money the MS6 seems like a good car. Unless you are looking to AutoX it's going to a fine daily machine. It is also very inexpensive with 06 models having $3,750-$4,750 in incentives depending on if you go with Mazda financing. That makes a GT MS6 about $23k I think. A Spec B or new A4 is going to cost you over 30k. Once you get to 30-33k I'd opt for an 04 S4 or an 06 330i. Under 25k I think the MS6 is a nice deal.
04-12-2007, 09:26 AM
#33
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Originally Posted by Ike
Great, and my Evo has the same FWD bias, I assure you it doesn't handle like a FWD car. I can also assure you that it the torque split doesn't kick in "mostly for straight line acceleration" in my car and the MS6.
04-12-2007, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by dmp
Keep in mind - without 93 and higher Fuel, it won't be 274hp...Frankly, I doubt Maz's HP ratings on the car to begin with...
04-12-2007, 09:47 AM
#35
RX8 and a Truk....
Originally Posted by MazdaMonkey
It may seem that way because its torque curve isn't that smooth (even for a turbo), and the engine seems to die out around 5500 RPMS, but it is feels damn fast behind the wheel considering its size/weight
It's more than 'seems' that way...Maz. TELLS people to use 93. It's widely-known the car produces 'less-than' power if it's not getting the hot-juice (which is NOT available in my state/area).
04-12-2007, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by dmp
It's more than 'seems' that way...Maz. TELLS people to use 93. It's widely-known the car produces 'less-than' power if it's not getting the hot-juice (which is NOT available in my state/area).
And did you really abbreviate Mazda with "Maz."? It is only one less character and it takes me the same amount of time to type either.
04-12-2007, 09:56 AM
#37
RX8 and a Truk....
Originally Posted by MazdaMonkey
Well of course, most cars that specify premium won't achieve the same power figures with a lesser octane. I was just referring to you saying that the car doesn't feel like 274hp overall. I didn’t know you meant just when using regular gas. That direct Injection loves the premium. I don’t doubt the peak power figures as long as premium fuel is used.
:D
04-13-2007, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by dmp
Right - But the rub - and the SECOND reason I'd never buy one (The first is the fwd-bias) is because the MS6 I buy would never make the power I paid for...and I already HAVE that problem with my rx8
:D
:D
But hey cars that shouldn't require premium but do, like the NC Miata, irritate me too.
Last edited by MazdaMonkey; 04-13-2007 at 09:39 AM.
04-13-2007, 10:08 AM
#39
RX8 and a Truk....
Originally Posted by MazdaMonkey
So you would just put regular gas in it? Assuming that premium is 20 cents more than regular and 20mpg average at 10k a year for a Speed6 that is only $100 more a year to put in premium gas. And that doesn't even take into account the increased fuel economy that higher octane gas can bring. I would drop $8.34 a month for the extra horses. And I assume most others would also if they choose to spend the thousands extra to buy the turbo version over the regular 4 cylinder.
But hey cars that shouldn't require premium but do, like the NC Miata, irritate me too.
But hey cars that shouldn't require premium but do, like the NC Miata, irritate me too.
Try READING what I'm writing here brother. I CANNOT BUY 93 OCTANE FUEL IN MY AREA
So, with HIGHEST octane fuel I can find around here, which is 92 OCTANE, i'd have MEASURABLY LESS than the advertised 274hp.
Capisce?
04-13-2007, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by MazdaMonkey
The Evo's drivetrain is on a whole different level. I am just relating my own experiences driving a MS6 (I borrowed a co-workers for about 2000 miles, shown below), and Road and Track just happens to agree with me.
04-13-2007, 01:38 PM
#41
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I used to have a turbo car...small motor big power... and I can tell you on a small engine with a turbo - OCTANE is crucial.
on my car, using 91 vs 93 octane made a WORLD of difference in performance. One friend who had the same car (but his was stock/mine had 50-60hp more due to mods) he dyno tested with 91 and then with 93 - difference was about 25hp to the wheels.
my neighbor who has an EVO only runs 100 octane race fuel. he said it is even better than 93.
the crappy gas (91) is less stable and prone to detonate/preignite under the high temp/hi pressure conditions of the turbo motor...so the gas won't ignite as precisely wtih each explosion...knock sensor detects that and backs off timing. with high quality fuel, it burns much more consistently, hence the motor can time more aggressively and consistently..and you get more advanced timing - so the piston is getting a longer power stroke...
on my car, once i tried 100 octane... i was hooked. add heat into the mix on teh MS3 and MS6 and you'll probably see less power when warm too... turbos don't like heat.... or low octane.
my car was a blast in the winter time with 93-100 octane..
if you get a MS6 and can only get 91 you may be disappointed.
is the RX8 affected much by 91 vs 93?
on my car, using 91 vs 93 octane made a WORLD of difference in performance. One friend who had the same car (but his was stock/mine had 50-60hp more due to mods) he dyno tested with 91 and then with 93 - difference was about 25hp to the wheels.
my neighbor who has an EVO only runs 100 octane race fuel. he said it is even better than 93.
the crappy gas (91) is less stable and prone to detonate/preignite under the high temp/hi pressure conditions of the turbo motor...so the gas won't ignite as precisely wtih each explosion...knock sensor detects that and backs off timing. with high quality fuel, it burns much more consistently, hence the motor can time more aggressively and consistently..and you get more advanced timing - so the piston is getting a longer power stroke...
on my car, once i tried 100 octane... i was hooked. add heat into the mix on teh MS3 and MS6 and you'll probably see less power when warm too... turbos don't like heat.... or low octane.
my car was a blast in the winter time with 93-100 octane..
if you get a MS6 and can only get 91 you may be disappointed.
is the RX8 affected much by 91 vs 93?
04-13-2007, 03:25 PM
#42
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Originally Posted by 23109VC
I used to have a turbo car...small motor big power... and I can tell you on a small engine with a turbo - OCTANE is crucial.
on my car, using 91 vs 93 octane made a WORLD of difference in performance. One friend who had the same car (but his was stock/mine had 50-60hp more due to mods) he dyno tested with 91 and then with 93 - difference was about 25hp to the wheels.
my neighbor who has an EVO only runs 100 octane race fuel. he said it is even better than 93.
the crappy gas (91) is less stable and prone to detonate/preignite under the high temp/hi pressure conditions of the turbo motor...so the gas won't ignite as precisely wtih each explosion...knock sensor detects that and backs off timing. with high quality fuel, it burns much more consistently, hence the motor can time more aggressively and consistently..and you get more advanced timing - so the piston is getting a longer power stroke...
on my car, once i tried 100 octane... i was hooked. add heat into the mix on teh MS3 and MS6 and you'll probably see less power when warm too... turbos don't like heat.... or low octane.
my car was a blast in the winter time with 93-100 octane..
if you get a MS6 and can only get 91 you may be disappointed.
is the RX8 affected much by 91 vs 93?
on my car, using 91 vs 93 octane made a WORLD of difference in performance. One friend who had the same car (but his was stock/mine had 50-60hp more due to mods) he dyno tested with 91 and then with 93 - difference was about 25hp to the wheels.
my neighbor who has an EVO only runs 100 octane race fuel. he said it is even better than 93.
the crappy gas (91) is less stable and prone to detonate/preignite under the high temp/hi pressure conditions of the turbo motor...so the gas won't ignite as precisely wtih each explosion...knock sensor detects that and backs off timing. with high quality fuel, it burns much more consistently, hence the motor can time more aggressively and consistently..and you get more advanced timing - so the piston is getting a longer power stroke...
on my car, once i tried 100 octane... i was hooked. add heat into the mix on teh MS3 and MS6 and you'll probably see less power when warm too... turbos don't like heat.... or low octane.
my car was a blast in the winter time with 93-100 octane..
if you get a MS6 and can only get 91 you may be disappointed.
is the RX8 affected much by 91 vs 93?
04-13-2007, 05:24 PM
#43
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MazdaMonkey. love that pic of the Black Cherry Mica. Me have one just like it. Not a GT though, and no moonroof.
I'll be blunt and to the point. For the money The Speed 6 is a SUPER deal. OK, so for someone looking for a daily and a weekend fun/track car, it's not the wisest choice. This is not what I would call an enthusiast car. This car has a mix of everything. It's more refined and far more luxurious then an EVO/STI, It's tuned to feel beefy, not raw and revvy. Even though the tuning is off still IMO, and the car definitely doesn't make 274hp (the 280tq though is actually underrated), it's so smooth, the power delivery is actually very even, and it's really a super car for the money. I couldn't be more pleased with it, and as a daily driver I prefer it TONS over my previous 04 STI.
I prefer the S2000 over the STI as a weekend fun car, so that's why I am so happy with my combo. Yeah, I wanted to buy an STI Limited, not the Speed 6, but we are talking $10k here. Not worth it to spend that kind of money on a commuter car. Even the Legacy GT, which I'd prefer over this car IMO wasn't worth spending the $2-3k more with the deal I got on this baby. The Speed 6 is a great machine. Disect it's flaws from a diehard enthusiast standpoint, and sure, it's heavy, not as powerful as an EVO or STI, doesn't handle as well, but look at it as a combination car, and it really is a super vehicle. TRUST ME
I'll be blunt and to the point. For the money The Speed 6 is a SUPER deal. OK, so for someone looking for a daily and a weekend fun/track car, it's not the wisest choice. This is not what I would call an enthusiast car. This car has a mix of everything. It's more refined and far more luxurious then an EVO/STI, It's tuned to feel beefy, not raw and revvy. Even though the tuning is off still IMO, and the car definitely doesn't make 274hp (the 280tq though is actually underrated), it's so smooth, the power delivery is actually very even, and it's really a super car for the money. I couldn't be more pleased with it, and as a daily driver I prefer it TONS over my previous 04 STI.
I prefer the S2000 over the STI as a weekend fun car, so that's why I am so happy with my combo. Yeah, I wanted to buy an STI Limited, not the Speed 6, but we are talking $10k here. Not worth it to spend that kind of money on a commuter car. Even the Legacy GT, which I'd prefer over this car IMO wasn't worth spending the $2-3k more with the deal I got on this baby. The Speed 6 is a great machine. Disect it's flaws from a diehard enthusiast standpoint, and sure, it's heavy, not as powerful as an EVO or STI, doesn't handle as well, but look at it as a combination car, and it really is a super vehicle. TRUST ME
04-13-2007, 08:53 PM
#44
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Originally Posted by Rupes
I guess I would question why someone would turn in a car after only 4k miles. I don't think anyone would take that huge of a depreciation hit unless there was something seriously wrong with the car, or it was a demo car, either way, I'm not sure I'd want to mess around with something like that.
And after more research, I have found another GT model with 7k on the odometer for around the same price? Demo cars maybe? I guess if there is no previos owner on file ( I can run the VIN) then these cars are demos. I will find out tomorrow.
Last edited by 9krpmrx8; 04-13-2007 at 09:04 PM.
04-13-2007, 08:56 PM
#45
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Originally Posted by swoope
with a crazy *** snap oversteer issue, that was there till 93, but what do i know..
great car.
beers
great car.
beers
That's what I get for not reading before posting. I was just thinking of the cars I have lapped.
Oh wait, I remebered that the MR2 was a special edition FWD version.
Just kidding.
Hey, I likey!!!
Last edited by 9krpmrx8; 04-13-2007 at 09:14 PM.
04-14-2007, 12:00 PM
#47
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Originally Posted by dmp
Try READING what I'm writing here brother. I CANNOT BUY 93 OCTANE FUEL IN MY AREA
So, with HIGHEST octane fuel I can find around here, which is 92 OCTANE, i'd have MEASURABLY LESS than the advertised 274hp.
Capisce?
So, with HIGHEST octane fuel I can find around here, which is 92 OCTANE, i'd have MEASURABLY LESS than the advertised 274hp.
Capisce?
http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/disp...r=specs&bhcp=1
04-14-2007, 04:34 PM
#48
04-16-2007, 07:46 PM
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I'd had a Speed 6 since late December and love it. I paid what you would for a base MS3 MSRP... a lot of car for the money. As for the comments in this thread...
It was a general powerloss issue due to an overly sensitive knock sensor. Recall flash fixed the problem.
91 vs 93... well the guy making 320-350 on his modded MS6 in Arizona can only get 91... Is there a difference? Certainly. Will you REALLY notice it? More than likely not.
Handling... has nothing to due with the drawbacks of its TOYODA AWD system (NOT Haldex!). The suspension modding people have been doing is already proving that the car can handle much better. Stiffer springs (which have been said to actually ride better than stock) and a thicker rear sway bar have been said to make the car much easier to rotate in corners and kill the tendency for understeer that it has stock.
AWD system... so what if it's FWD based! Better than FWD! Have you ever driven one hard? In the snow it's a blast and that AWD is definitely working overtime. In the dry? I have broken the rear loose countless times on turns and coming out of my apartment complex onto the main road in the morning. The rear is always putting something down. Exactly how much power is a bit of a mystery, but trust me... it makes a difference.
Power/speed/.25 mi... good drivers are hitting high 13's bone stock. With a few easy bolt-ons they are hitting mid-13's. Guys experimenting with tuning and some of them with very few other mods... low 13's. If the two guys who have been pushing the package before some decent tuning became available didn't blow their motors... we'd be seeing 12's. There is a YouTube of the one guy in AZ who was sporting 320-350 whp taking on a modded SRT-4 and walking all over it.
Ike... I'm surprised to see him defending the car. Hell.. I had my own negative comments when it first came out, but between the deal I got on it and... it's looks just grew on me. Fell in love with it in VR the first time I saw one.
To the OP... for what you're looking for... it's a great deal. If your wife is cool with driving stick, then I'd say go for it. Good for the long trips with the family, but sporty enough for you to have some fun with it too... and the deal you can get on one can't be beat.
It was a general powerloss issue due to an overly sensitive knock sensor. Recall flash fixed the problem.
91 vs 93... well the guy making 320-350 on his modded MS6 in Arizona can only get 91... Is there a difference? Certainly. Will you REALLY notice it? More than likely not.
Handling... has nothing to due with the drawbacks of its TOYODA AWD system (NOT Haldex!). The suspension modding people have been doing is already proving that the car can handle much better. Stiffer springs (which have been said to actually ride better than stock) and a thicker rear sway bar have been said to make the car much easier to rotate in corners and kill the tendency for understeer that it has stock.
AWD system... so what if it's FWD based! Better than FWD! Have you ever driven one hard? In the snow it's a blast and that AWD is definitely working overtime. In the dry? I have broken the rear loose countless times on turns and coming out of my apartment complex onto the main road in the morning. The rear is always putting something down. Exactly how much power is a bit of a mystery, but trust me... it makes a difference.
Power/speed/.25 mi... good drivers are hitting high 13's bone stock. With a few easy bolt-ons they are hitting mid-13's. Guys experimenting with tuning and some of them with very few other mods... low 13's. If the two guys who have been pushing the package before some decent tuning became available didn't blow their motors... we'd be seeing 12's. There is a YouTube of the one guy in AZ who was sporting 320-350 whp taking on a modded SRT-4 and walking all over it.
Ike... I'm surprised to see him defending the car. Hell.. I had my own negative comments when it first came out, but between the deal I got on it and... it's looks just grew on me. Fell in love with it in VR the first time I saw one.
To the OP... for what you're looking for... it's a great deal. If your wife is cool with driving stick, then I'd say go for it. Good for the long trips with the family, but sporty enough for you to have some fun with it too... and the deal you can get on one can't be beat.