Renesis_8

Awesome news!
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PresleyStar

bern

Here's a more technical update on the changes!

http://rotarynews.com/node/view/841


Enjoy,

-Bern

Tirminyl

Thanks Bern.

Renesis_8

"The system was also optimised with a new twin radiator design coupled to a oil to water heat exhanger matched to our heat rejection requirements. This style of system is proven in racing and part of this design was used with Mazdas R26B (4-rotor) engine that won Le Mans."

Can anyone elaborate more on this?
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INNOCENTPLAY cam

Mazmart

iTrader: (12)

I'm aware of this system (It was what was wrong with the last 12A engines, with higher than optimum oil temps). I think they are referring to an oil cooler that gets cooled by the cold side of the water radiator or am I misunderstanding this. If this is correct I hadn't heard of it being used on the R26B at LeMans. I'll have to research this more.

Paul.

rotary crazy

great news bern! now Im excited about the race, if the car runs cooler they will get more power out of it, I heard some time ago that they had to hold back on power because of the cooling problem.

I want that water pump for my race car!

that engine is a work of art! beatifull!

rotarygod

As far as I knew the 787B had a very large oil/air cooler. That's what it looks like in all the pictures. This does fascinate me though. I'm starting to think what I saw on the Courage back in May, may have been an oil/water system and I just didn't know it. I saw 2 radiators for cooling and then behind the left side radiator was another smaller radiator. Maybe the large aluminum tank I saw in the engine bay doubled as both an oil reservoir for the dry sump system as well as having an internal heat exchanger? I'm just speculating here. I'm not sure. That would have made the smaller rear most radiator on the left side the heat exchanger for the water as it would have had it's own dedicated coolant and pump.

This still doesn't make any sense to me though. That's a little more complexity than I would want on a race car. Keep it simple. Why would you put your primary heat exchanger for that system in the very hot airstream behind a radiator? I can't figure that one out. It's location wouldn't make any more sense as a true air/oil cooler either. The colling system has been redone since then so who know how different it is now?

Let's just brainstorm here. What if we used some fairly large oil/water coolers but instead of having the water be it's own dedicated system, it was actually the engine coolant? This way there would be no need to an oil cooler to be in the airstream. Our goal is really to keep the oil and coolant temperatures fairly close to each other so perhaps a system of this design only needs to reject enough heat to equalize? This would mean that dual radiators could expell all the heat from the system. That would be an interesting take on things but I'm still not to convinced that it would work that easily or efficiently. It might though. I've never tried it. I need to think about this for a while. Keep in mind I'm not saying the Courage has this setup. I'm just thinking out loud. I might need to play with this on my RX-7 sometime. I've never though about it this way.

I do agree with Paul though. I always though the oil/water cooler was the weak point in those old RX-7's. They did use engine coolant and the primary heat removal source from the engine. Of course those were some damn small coolers too.

rotary crazy

yes, the 787b had a very large oil cooler in the back and the rad in the front of the car, it also had a smaller oil cooler for the trans.

we will see how efective this system is this weekeng

Renesis_8

Yeah!!! live on SPEED, i cant wait!
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EroticaExotica

rotary crazy

Im recording it (maybe my wife its right, im crazy )

Hey Bern! any more pics of the engine?

rotarygod

That's what is confusing to me. I have many pictures of the 787B without the engine cover on and I can point out every single cooler and what appears to be a large oil/air oil cooler. I don't understand where they used an oil/water system in that car unless he meant in the 792P and other later 4 rotor powered race cars.

rotary crazy

Im cheking the pracxtice times right now and the car is slow as shi... 1.24.xxxx the other cars are runing under 1.16.xxx

Renesis_8

reliability................... is....... the key.......... omg this car is freaking slow!
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Melanie4you live

rotarygod

Well it looks like at least that much hasn't changed.

rotary crazy

hope they can find more speed, as it is the others can give them a one hour head star and still beat the mazda

Mazmart

iTrader: (12)

Well I asked the expert and he said none of the 4 rotored cars that he's worked with have used this setup and that it is much better suited to piston motors.

Paul.

bern

GOOD NEWS:
Hey they picked up some 4 seconds (1:20.277), and we are faster than one GT1

BAD NEWS:
So did everyone else... guys now running 1:12.810 to 1:16.857

TEST SESSION #1
Petit Le Mans
Road Atlanta / 2.54 miles
September 27-30, 2006 / Braselton, Georgia


Pos Pos No. Class Drivers Time Speed Lap Diff Laps Car Make
1 1 2 LMP1 Capello/ McNish 1:12.271 126.524 18 - 40 Audi R10/TDI Power
2 2 16 LMP1 Weaver/ Leitzinger/ Wallace 1:12.756 125.680 12 +0.485 36 Lola B06/10/AER
31 6 LMP2 Maassen/ Bernhard/ Collard 1:12.810 125.587 17 +0.539 52 Porsche RS Spyder
4 3 88 LMP1 Minassian/ Primat/ Cambell-Walter 1:13.449 124.495 10 +1.178 44 Creation CAD6/H-01/ Judd
5 4 1 LMP1 Biela/ Pirro/Werner 1:13.523 124.369 25 +1.252 40 Audi R10/TDI Power
6 5 15 LMP1 Johansson/ Mowlem/ Kurosawa 1:13.545 124.332 9 +1.274 44 Zytek 06S/Zytek
72 7 LMP2 Luhr/ Dumas/ Rockenfeller 1:13.584 124.266 26 +1.313 29 Porsche RS Spyder
8 3 37 LMP2 C.Field/ Halliday/J.Field 1:13.721 124.035 7 +1.450 40 Lola B05 40/AER
9 6 20 LMP1 C.Dyson/ G.Smith 1:14.429 122.855 29 +2.158 29 Lola B06/10/AER
10 7 9 LMP1 Dayton/ Gidley/ Meira 1:14.818 122.217 11 +2.547 23 Lola EX257/AER
11 4 19 LMP2 van der Steur/ Devlin/ Greaves 1:16.857 118.974 7 +4.586 33 Radical SR9/AER
12 5 27 LMP2 Lienhard/ Theys/ van de Poele 1:17.760 117.593 11 +5.489 39 Lola R05/40 / Judd
13 1 007 LMGT1 Enge/ Turner 1:18.516 116.460 45 +6.245 49 Aston Martin DBR9
14 2 009 LMGT1 Sarrazin/ Lamy 1:18.769 116.086 13 +6.498 46 Aston Martin DBR9
15 8 12 LMP1 Lewis/ McMurry/ Willman 1:19.406 115.155 38 +7.135 40 Lola EX257/AER
16 3 4 LMGT1 Gavin/ Beretta/ Magnussen 1:19.807 114.576 10 +7.536 46 Corvette C6-R
17 6 8 LMP2 Bach/ Cosmo/ Forbes-Robinson 1:20.277 113.906 11 +8.006 37 Courage C-65/Mazda
18 4 3 LMGT1 Fellows/ O'Connell/ Papis 1:20.601 113.448 6 +8.330 45 Corvette C6-R
19 1 62 LMGT2 Ortelli/ Kelleners/ Palttala 1:23.375 109.673 13 +11.104 44 Ferrari 430 GT Berlinetta
20 2 61 LMGT2 Lazzaro/ Mediani/ Franchitti 1:23.714 109.229 22 +11.443 44 Ferrari 430 GT Berlinetta
21 3 31 LMGT2 J Bergmeister/ Jonsson/ Long 1:23.906 108.979 14 +11.635 43 Porsche 911 GT3 RSR
22 4 51 LMGT2 Jeannette/ Milner/ Lally 1:24.208 108.588 12 +11.937 31 Panoz Esperante GTLM/Ford
23 5 21 LMGT2 Auberlen/ Hand/ Said 1:24.469 108.253 3 +12.198 45 BMW E46 M3
24 6 45 LMGT2 van Overbeek/ Lieb/ Henzler 1:24.469 108.253 9 +12.198 40 Porsche 911 GT3 RSR
25 7 44 LMGT2 Pechnik/ Neiman/ Law 1:24.504 108.208 15 +12.233 41 Porsche 911 GT3 RSR
26 8 50 LMGT2 Maxwell/ Brabham/ Bourdais 1:25.303 107.194 15 +13.032 16 Panoz Esperante GTLM/Ford
27 9 23 LMGT2 Farnbacher/ Tiemann/ Liddell 1:25.363 107.119 10 +13.092 40 Porsche 911 GT3 RSR
28 10 22 LMGT2 Marks/ Sellers/ James 1:25.840 106.524 29 +13.569 41 BMW E46 M3
Test Session


We have a few more practice and qualifiers... have hope!

-Bern

Renesis_8

Are they still applying whatever works on a piston motor to the rotary?! They did it before with the bigger radiator...
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Sweet_Nati live

simontemplar09

Well they're right where they were last year...

2005 Petit Le Mans
Test Session: 8 LMP2 J.Bach/ G.Cosmo/E.F.Robinson 1:20.510 113.576
Practice 1: 8 LMP2 J.Bach/ G.Cosmo/E.F.Robinson 1:21.376 112.367
Practice 2: 8 LMP2 J.Bach/ G.Cosmo/E.F-Robinson 1:21.087 112.768
Practice 3: 8 LMP2 J.Bach/ G.Cosmo/E.F-Robinson 1:20.392 113.743
(^Night Practice^)
Practice 4: 8 LMP2 J.Bach/ G.Cosmo/E.F-Robinson 1:20.139 114.102
Qualifying: 8 LMP2 J.Bach/ G.Cosmo/E.F-Robinson 1:18.687 116.207
Race: 8 LMP2 J.Bach/ G.Cosmo/E.F-Robinson 1:21.275 112.507

The next practice sessions are at 10:00-11:00am, 2:45-3:45pm, and 7:00-9:00pm Thusday. All can be followed online through live timing and scoring here:

http://www.imsaracing.net/2003/lt/ltc.html

and the Trackside commentary:

http://globecast.workscast.com/

rotarygod

I didn't think any of the older cars had oil/water systems but Rick would know better.

Mazmart

iTrader: (12)

That improved water pump should be a step in the right direction though.

Paul.

rotary crazy

I think they will get a couple of seconds of theyr time today

on another note: Wish me luck I just made a bit on a 2005 rx-8


1:20.232 in todays practice

rotarygod

Wow currently qualifying 6th in class!

rotarygod

Looking at the times above so far, I find it interesting that there are a few cars are hanging right with the Audi diesels.

simontemplar09

Second session ended earlier for lightning/marshal safety. Another 1:20.439 113.68 for the #8.