Christianv

Give them time. I have a feeling Ghosn isn't done with them just yet. RWD and RWD based AWD is Infiniti's ticket to success. The only other Japanese company that I trust to come out with something exciting is Mazda, but alas, they have no entry in this segment - and Honda doesn't seem to care for RWD (other than the S2k, that is).

Btw, re: the old IS300 vs the E46 325...there was a 30hp difference between the two - and the 3'er was still a better performer.

Anyways, not that I put much stock in magazine testing, but these are the stats C&D got for the E90 325i:

Vehicle type: front-engine, rear-wheel-drive, 5-passenger, 4-door sedan
Price as tested: $33,190 (base price: $30,995)
Engine type: DOHC 24-valve inline-6, magnesium-and-aluminum block and aluminum head, port fuel injection
Displacement: 183 cu in, 2996cc
Power (SAE net): 215 bhp @ 6250 rpm
Torque (SAE net): 185 lb-ft @ 2750 rpm
Transmission: 6-speed manual
Wheelbase: 108.7 in
Length/width/height: 178.2/71.5/55.9 in
Curb weight: 3348 lb
Zero to 60 mph: 6.1 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 16.8 sec
Zero to 130 mph: 33.2 sec
Street start, 5-60 mph: 6.8 sec
Standing 1/4-mile: 14.7 sec @ 94 mph
Top speed (governor limited): 147 mph
Braking, 70-0 mph: 161 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.87 g
EPA fuel economy, city driving: 20 mpg
C/D-observed fuel economy: 25 mpg


It's a good time to be a car enthusiast.

Mazmart

iTrader: (12)

I'll ask this one more time? Wouldn't the RX8 be considered to be in this segment?

ECHO1

https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-discussion-3/comparing-rx-8-bmw-330i-s0-why-does-330i-cost-%2415k-more-really-74019/

i don't think mazda is synonymous premium/luxury brands such as bmw or lexus, or even acura for that matter. it's not so much a matter of performance, rather a matter of public perception.

i chose the 8 over the a4 and 3 series because it performed as well, if not better, than the aforementioned autos. there's also waaay to many bmw's and audi's up here in/around seattle.

Mazmart

iTrader: (12)

I would have thought it would be based upon cars in a certain price range fitting a certain amount of passengers within a certain size and general weight group. Then maybe certain stylistic things considered and perhaps which wheels are doing the driving. I always thought of the 8 as up against the G35 and the IS300, which would of course have it in company with the 3 series, the A4 and the TSX. Some of these choices don't hold a candle in any department over the 8 outside of their brand names unless you do the most expensive variants of these and that's if they even offer more powerful packages, some of these don't.
Just my 2 cents. Sorry, I openly admit bias.

ECHO1

true...

as does 90% of the forum, myself included

willhave8

Trying hard to hit 300 posts tonight...

playdoh43

in my personal oppinion, most people I know thats shopping for an entry level luxury sedan/coupe doesnt consider the RX8. Nor do Magazine ever put the 8 in comparisons when the 3 series, G35, C class, IS are involved. Ive only seen the 8 vs Z and S2k and crossfire etc.

The majority of entry luxury shoppers are looking for class and comfort and matureness in a car. RX8 just looks too radical and sporty. the interior of the 8 is amongst the best in its class, but isnt up to par vs the luxury cars. Its also lacking the usual luxury features such as individual zoned climate control, bluetooth, voice activated nav, heated/ventilated seats, standard xenon HID lights, fog lights, smart key, smart engine start, compass, large aluminum/wood trim amongst many other things. (im just roughly listing some things off the top of my head here, the 8 might have some of these but im not sure). luxry and comfort and class often means a lot to these buyers, its not just about performance. in this segment, thats why these cars cost a lot more, its the extra money isnt just because of a blue/white propeller or mount fuji or 3 point star badge, but they still play a part.

thats just how i look at it, i dont know why you would want the rx8 to be compared in that group? they are just different kinds of cars.

Ike

Mazmart

iTrader: (12)

Playdoh,
You're so correct in a lot of the points you have made. The 8 does however have a few of these features offered especially for 06. Your points are accurate though and it's a shame that some of these buyers aren't necessarily thinking of the 8 and it is partially the fault of the magazines and then Mazda's for styling it a little to much toward the youngboy crowd. A lot of the people who have bought them don't care about rotor emblems.

mkaresh

If you want to perform a thorough price comparison, I suggest you use my site, www.truedelta.com. It allows you to select the features you want and automatically adjusts for feature differences. No other site does these things.

I keep track of which cars are compared. The cars most commonly compared to the RX-8 are:

1. 350Z
2. G35
3. S2000
4. TSX
5. MINI
6. WRX

For the 3-Series:
1. TL
2. G35
3. C-Class
4. TSX
5. A4
6. S40

I find some of these puzzling, but there you have it. You might think of the RX-8 and 3-Series as divided by one degree of separation. They aren't often directly compared, but they are compared to many of the same cars.

JeRKy 8 Owner

I am sorry guys...but I think the new IS looks like a ******* sweet sports sedan. And maybe it's just a coincidence that the IS350 is as fast as a Z as well.

I think a good $2,000 should be deducted from each model of the car but that's besides the point. I really like this car. I've got a relative who is seriously considering the IS350. I hope he goes for it.

RX8-79

*Yawns* Slap a toyota badge on it and lower the price $10k, and maybe it'd pass for something special. As it is, I dont see anything special about it. The TL and G35 are better buys for the money, and the 330i runs circles around it. It'll sell, but it's no threat to the REAL sport sedans out there.

spork

Sigh. This kind of hating just annoys me. Just because it's stupid. Like seriously... no duh dropping the price of this car by 30% would "maybe" make it special. It's true for any car. And c'mon you can say this car will beat any of those competitors in a a straight line too and that's why none of those are a threat to the IS350.

I mean yes, the car has its deficiencies in handling, but to hate on it like that is just silly.

Dinhx8

I've noticed rx8-79 really loves bmws and hates lexus'.

at any rate, its your opinion, but will say this-you don't think the IS is anything special, so not sure why you love the 330 so much. Its just as pricey as the 350. It has less power. Arguably less reliable. I agree the 330 has a better 'handling feel'.
It won't run circles around the IS, cause the IS will get a head start by smoking it off the line. I know what your sayin about handling, but its not like the IS 'can't handle'. Take the two cars to a track, i highly doubt the 330 will win, if it does very very marginally.

playdoh43

I agree. btw, it handles way better than the TL.

RX8-79

Oops...how dare I have an opinion or say anything against the alfuckinmighty toyota.

It's pretty simple; I dont get all worked up over being fastest in a straightline or driving around in tomblike silence, so this thing does nothing to interest me. When they can create a REAL sports sedan (i.e., something with road feel, something not softly-sprung, something that doesnt look like a vaguely disguised toyota) maybe then I'll show some interest. But since they havent created one in 16 years, I doubt they will anytime soon.

BlueEyes

when did you test drive the 350? what did you think of the autostick?

RX8-79

Hate is awfully strong word. In this case, it's almost accurate though.

Spoken just like a good ole magracer.
Ive driven both. Driven both on the same roads, in fact. I stand by what I say, the IS handles like an ES with slightly tighter suspension. The 3 is the handler in this class, while the toyota is the sprinter, and nothing else. I used to think the g35 was the one-trick pony in the group, but the IS took its place.

Dinhx8

ive driven them both too. not a magracer dude. you can feel schmeel all you want, call me when a 330 beats the 350 on the track. I also said earlier that i prefer the feel of the 330. YOu said the IS wasnt special. I just commented on that. Hey, a mustang GT will beat an 8 on the track.But i prefer the handling of the 8. I was just shedding some light that in ways the IS is like this compared to your lovely Bimmer.

your speak is more like a 'good ole' hater

Christianv

So what you're saying is that you like the Lexus over the BMW because it's faster on the 1/4 mile, but prefer the 8 against the much faster Mustang because it's a better handler, albeit slower?

The E90 chassis is light years ahead of the IS. If the track calls for handling over straight line power, then the BMW will win, simple as that - unless your definition of track is just 1/4 mile.

Dinhx8

NO! read my oriinal post. ggeez.

Rx79 said the IS is nothing special. I responded to that by saying my opinion was that while the 330 is the better handler its hard to call the IS not special.

I only mentioned the stang as an example. Your question to me is my exact point. It handles not as good as the 8. But has more power. Yet,
I would never "dismiss a mustang" (like rx879 did the IS)- simply because it can't handle as good. I never said i liked one over the other.

He then called me a mag racer even though i have driven both. My point was that, he can dismiss it all he wants, but on a track (ahem, most have straights and curves) i think the IS will hold plenty of its own against a bimmer. this is not to say i'd rather have it. im saying don't dismiss it just 'cause'.

playdoh43

no offense, but to be making all these remarks about it... have you driven an IS350? Ive driven it, and the suspension is not any softer than the rx8, in fact it might be a tad stiffer than the 8. youre right about the road feel though, the electronic nanying that cant be turned off takes a way a lot of driver to car input/connection. IMO its definetly a real sports sedan though, bonafide.

Christianv

ROGER. Thanks for clarifying that.

My gripe with Lexus/Toyota is that instead of evolving the chassis from the old IS - which by all accounts was a ton of fun to drive - they created one that's a few notches BELOW its predecessor in the handling and fun to drive department. They then followed the MBZ recipe of shoving a big engine into an otherwise mediocre handling platform, then proceeded to add insult to injury by packing it to the rim with intrusive electronics.

They gave up on chasing BMW and started emulating MBZ and any driver who prefers to truly drive and not just sit on a comfy couch on wheels will probably not even look at the IS twice, over say a BMW or a G35. Add to that the BMW like price tag, and it's a no brainer. Four years of "free" maintenance also means I don't have to worry about reliability.

IMHO, Lexus missed the mark once again. Perhaps they should have Mazda's RX-8 chassis engineers teach them a thing or 2.

playdoh43

theres nothing wrong with that, its a great chasis. personally i believe the platform and chasis is superior to the IS300, its much more rigid and stable during hard cornering. I just think the IS300 is more fun because its available in manual and dosnt have as many electronic bells and whistles forcing their way over your physical input.

Everyone is looking for varying degree of performance vs comfort. I dont think a luxury sport sedan needs to be overly concerned with track perofrmance, lets face it, g35 and 330i are never going to be able to take a EVO or S2000 on the track either. They are just looking for a good balance that will please the masses thats all. how many IS or bmw or g35 owners actually take their car to the track? I know I sure dont want to take my G coupe to the track and risk damaging it by driving it hard. For a lot of people the IS350 is a better sport sedan than the other 2 as far as being a street car is concerned. just my 2 cents. Lexus is smart, do you rather sell to all 2 dozen of us auto enthusiasts who value performance? or do you rather sell to the thousands of casual buyers out here?

Dinhx8

i agree with ya here...

but will say, the E55AMGs, the C350 (with the slk engine) are sweet recipe's IMHO

i just think it should be cheaper. all would be forgiven if they were a *tad* cheaper. (IS line). I aslo agree with playdoh. its not so bad of a handler. it does take corners with decent prowess. I also could use more legroom in the back though. its just identity. if you skimp on handling, give me more legroom. if you skimp on legroom give me more handling. that's my critique of the IS...identity...luxury or sport?