PhotoMunkey

BMW M3 = Ultimate Driving Machine
BMW 135i = Ultimate Marketing Machine

For those considering the 335i/135i duo know this: BMW started WELDING the covers onto their aluminum differentials in mid-2007. They do NOT want LSDs installed. Period.
Boooooo, BMW, booooooooo!

BMW had the perfect chance after they build the Mini, to go back and reinvent the 2002tii for the US market. The climate was ripe for it as retro-look cars were hot (the Mini STILL is) and instead they took a pass. Long before the M3 was even a dream, the 02 put BMW on the map of car makers. The Turbo was nearly as fast, or faster than the 911 of its day, for thousands less.

BMW today is a marketing firm which happens to produce a few solid chassis on which their M-Sport division creates genius. Anyone buying anything other than an M3, M5, or M6, and claiming they've just "bought a sports car" truly doesn't realize, or doesn't care, that they've just been duped.

The 335i is really a great car, but there are issues just like with any car. My friend's 335i coupe is in a shop in LA right now with a clutch failure because BMW refuses to work on it because he's modified some stuff. Nothing he modified caused the clutch master cylinder to go bad and smoke through two clutches, but they don't care about that at all.

Chris_Bangle

iTrader: (2)

The new M3 is the ultimate driving machine? Are you serious?

Endgame

I like it. It now has more delegates in my voting campaign than the next Rotary or Z. That Tii performance package is Whoa! And you can purchae the parts to up the performance right from the factory thus keeping the warranty in tact.

saturn

The tii concept that was shown awhile back (as pictured above) was a normal 135i with a bunch of parts on it. You can buy all of those parts from BMW.

The tii that they just announced they are making has not been fully designed yet. It remains to be seen what bits they change.

The point is, if you like that car above, buy a 1 series and tack on some of the BMW Performance parts and you're done. You have the exact car pictured above (well, you'll have to ride with illegal clear corners in the US if you want it exact). The paint job is ugly IMO, but the wheels and front, side, and back fender body kit pieces are to die for. I wouldn't drive a 1 without them. Add on a Dinan tune and you've got a sexy shape and 384hp all 100% covered under warranty and free maintenance for 4 years. Not a terrible deal.

saturn

You haven't driven the 135. Enough said.

Haha, I like how you use a complex primary-style voting system to determine your next car. Just watch out for those pesky superdelegates.

Endgame

LOL! I will!!!

Ajax

Not quite true.. The 135 tii above is the first 135i concept. There were 1 or 2 more that followed afterwards that had slightly different setups. The one above is the concept for tokyo.

Here's a couple shots from a later concept:






Since i know you read 1addicts anyway, here's the link to the parts:
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3888

Ajax

and for those who want to know what's on that steering wheel...

fahrfegneugen

He is one of the car reviewers on BBC's Top Gear television show.

The 1 series isn't that exciting to me, in Germany it has been a hatch back for years, which I think looks a little better. I don't see why BMW wants to have a cheap car...

^ is that a two minute 40 sec quarter mile, jk. Nice pics.

saturn

There may have been multiple prototypes, but BMW stated at the Tokyo Auto Show that the only reason the tii concept was there was to show off BMW Performance Parts (obviously we now know this to be untrue). I don't see anything at all different between these concepts in terms of the exterior at all. Point is, you can buy the parts today and make it look damn near identical to the tii concept (minus the fancy stickers of course).

As far as the interior goes I have no idea. Everything add-on part I've seen on any of the concepts and the performance catalog looks as tacky as it can possibly get. That feux suede and carbon fiber is horrendous. I've tried to block it from my memory as much as possible.

CarAndDriver

I like many BMW's regardless of Jeremy Clarkson. I just find them to be overpriced and driven by tons of posers.

PhotoMunkey

E36 and E46 M3s are the cat's *** when it comes to performance driving. Most good drivers, in an M3, will deliver whup-a$$ on most any other car, on most any sort of road. Perhaps not a drag race, but who goes drag-racing in a sports car anyway?

People whose opinions I trust have already written about the new M3. Compared to the older versions, they say it's no comparison.

Anyone who says otherwise is typically selling something, or is a fanboi... Hey, I love my RX-8... don't get me wrong about that. But in terms of feel, refinement, and raw performance number, stock to stock, an M3 will wipe the floor with an RX-8.

BTW- I hope, later this year, to face my car off against a friend's E46 M3, and another's 335i sedan. All of the cars are carrying upgraded wheels, tires, brakes, and suspension, and the 335i lays down 385 horsepower. I'm praying for a twisty track on a wet day!

Endgame

You hit the nail on the head there. Most of the people in my office that have them have NO idea about the original purpose and intent of BMW. They just have them to have the 'successful' appearance.

Chris_Bangle

iTrader: (2)

I assume that you were replying to my comment:
Most British mags (Evo, Car, Autocar) who understand that there is more to cars then just numbers say the same thing: the M3 has lost some more of its feel.

Here is a good summary on the best M cars of all time:
http://www.m3post.com/goodiesforyou/evo.pdf

Every "Letters" section Roundel (BMW CCA magazine) contains letters from people who have been BMW owners for generations complaining about the company's direction which the new M5, M6 and now sadly the M3 emphasize.
Every track event that I attend: same story.
Most of the people complaining are not poseurs but people who track their car and like the involvement of driving. There is more to cars then just numbers.

For ultimate driving machines one has to look at the E30 M3, Lotus and some Porsches. The new M3 is build from the outset as a compromised machine build to accommodate the CSL version and probably even a CS down the line. It weights 1655 kg that only 65kg less than the E39 M5. I still think it is a terrific car but it is far off from an ultimate driving machine.

P.S the brakes still SUCK

#1Stunna

When I first saw the new 135i I thought it would be my next car. But when I took my 328i in for an oil change, I noticed that it was way too small. For a few thousand dollars more you can get a 3 serious. And if the saden isn't sporty enough for you, then you should look at the 3 coupe in person with the optional 1k sports package. The 3 coupe has just as much room as the rx8 when sitting in the back seats. Now here is were you guys will disagree... I actually like the steering of my 3 serious over the rx8's. It feels harder (somewhat stiffer) and more refined. The sports steering wheel is just amazing to the touch. But as mentioned there is def something special about the 8. I miss it sometimes. But its the overall package that gets me. Service for one is 100 times better than my experience with mazda. The mazda SA was actually telling me nothing was wrong with my engine just so I would go over the warranty mileage having them not have to fix my 8. Now I get everything for free to include brake changes and wipers. I even complained about my speaker making a strange noise when using the car's Bluetooth and they replaced my speaker without evidence or without anything having to be reproduced. My car granted its not the TT 335i, has enough power for me and has damn good quality components for being an entry level bmw. I even have power seats and leather, options that would have made my 8 cost about the same as the bmw. And the price was fair granted all the options I got. My rx8 cost me 32k when it first came out and the bmw was 37. Not that big of a dif, and service alone is worth the 5k imo. My 2 cents.

map

135 is probably a really good car, but I still think BMW screwed it up. It's uglier, barely lighter, and barely less expensive than a 3 series. Why wouldn't someone just get a 3?

saturn

If you're comparing it to a 3.28i then it's got 70 more horsepower and a better suspension. If you're comparing it to the 335i it's 200lbs lighter with a tighter suspension and about $5k less (base price).

Kafka

1. It does not have active steering (more pure feeling)
2. It has M-tuned suspension for 135i
3. It IS lighter
4. It IS smaller - close to E46 size
5. It has the BEST brakes (even better than M3 to some)

People who got 1 series...they WANT to drive, rather than looking good. Because we all agree...this car is FUGLY.

Ajax

1. Active steering is an option, but one I wouldn't get.
2. True.
3. True.
4. Very True.
5. I test drove it. The brakes are good, but in all honesty, the RX-8 has better brakes. That might be due to the weight of the car, but it's not that much heavier than the RX-8.

And I don't agree that the car is ugly at all, in fact, I like the look of it a lot. It probably won't turn heads like the RX-8 did when it first came out, but it's better in person than in photos and it'd be even better with the Tii kit. You are correct that it is a driver's car though. It drives extremely well.

I'm debating whether or not to buy one right now. There's a 3 month wait for delivery from Munich and pricing is less than ideal, but after test driving, I was very compelled to drop the $1000 deposit and just let them order it.

Chris_Bangle

iTrader: (2)

I just came back from Mid Ohio, where I say a 135i. I was hoping to hate it, but ended falling for it. Will have to take it out for a drive (the 128i as well) and see how it actually is.

saturn

I saw a review of the RX-8 vs the 135i and they both stopped within 1-2 ft of each other from 70mph. The 135i is heavier so I would definitely classify it as having excellent brakes. And the person you quote was speaking relative to other BMW's (not the RX-8).

Anyways, minor points. Like I said, might not be the car for everyone, but it deserves a second look. Definitely not what I expected when it comes to BMW.

Ajax

Don't get me wrong, the brakes were very good, I just liked the 8's stock brakes more. I need to drive it again, and I get to this weekend while I'm in chicago as my dad is checking out the X6 to replace his X5.

Anyway, for those interested, the best thing you can do is drive the car. It will surprise you.

That said, mine will probably be on order either at the end of this month or next month. I'm trying to get an 09 model year.

JRichter

I'm afraid to drive this car because I know I will want it. To me it sits right where M3's used to be 8 or so years ago back when I wanted one so bad and couldn't dream of affording one. A true driver's car.

dothackRAVE

It's called the M3 CSL. Look it up.

Personally, I like Jezza because he does not give a damn what you think. He's a man of his own world. That, and he has great passion for vehicles and the engineering that goes behind them.

I do agree with him on a lot of things, especially on the issue of soul and passion in engineering. I hate the Corolla. I hate the Civic. I hate most cars I see on the streets. I hate them because they were designed and built like a fridge.

When JC bangs on about a lack of soul, I can definitely see what he's talking about (being a little artist myself). The vehicles were designed with the inspiration of a toaster! I come from a family that owns nearly exclusively Toyotas. It was 100% Toyotas until my dad came home one day with a Volvo XC90.

I hate my parent's Toyotas. All of them inspired little more than a desire to mutilate myself. All of them had the lines drawn by a moron.

JC has a point. It's up to you to filter out what's total sarcasm, and what he's serious about.

Ajax

You should drive it just for the experience of driving it.
I'm currently deciding what to do about delivery, IE, European Delivery (pick it up in Munich, head to the nurburgring and run a few laps, then drive it to the port) or BMW Performance Center Delivery in South Carolina and drive it back to TX. The fact that BMW even has these options for all of their vehicles really tells you something about how they feel about their cars. If that's not passion, I don't know what is.