gwilliams6

Hey RIWWP I have owned both a FD RX7 and a 40 th Anniversary Edition RX8 and have driven both around a similar course (which shall remain my secret, not for the cops to know, as it is a road course around some public, but not heavily used roads in rural south jersey ). I was able to go faster around a similar course with my FD RX7 than my RX8 and I have driver school training,Jim Russell, and Bertil Roos to be specific and past SCCA showroom stock experience in modified RX7s. Keeping the RX8 on the boil was more work. I found I could power better out of slow corners with the FI FD RX7. So I think this debate is not just about how more sophisticated the stock RX8 chassis is, but also what kind of course you are driving. I have driven at the former Bridgehampton and current Road America tracks and though i have not had my RX8 on these tracks, I would be willing to bet that these long tracks would favor the FD RX7 over the RX8 . The stock FD RX7 has a much higher top speed. The RX8 might be better at tighter tracks like Lime Rock (where I did my Jim Russell training).

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

True, Road America is like 7-8 drag strips connected together by street corners. Power is very nearly the only significant metric there.

slvrstreak

iTrader: (3)

Who is this noob?!?

Ive driven both in stock form on mnt runs, big tracks, small tracks, and in between tracks...no comparison

gwilliams6

I am the "noob" that has driven rotaries since 1973.

slvrstreak

iTrader: (3)

That's the equivalent of a quadriplegic telling me he can outrun Usain Bolt

alnielsen

iTrader: (4)

I consider R.Am my home track. I know it well. There are only 3 corners there that could be considered normal street corners. These are corners 5, 9 & 12 (I always ran out of brakes at 12). The track was designed to mimic the original race course that ran around Elkhart Lake (2 mi. to the north).

It is a horsepower track, but because of the long straights aero plays a lot into getting around there fast too.

slvrstreak

iTrader: (3)

Ive ran them back to back (and at the same time with different drivers) at Road ATL and we're talking a consistent 5 sec difference in laptimes
The only difference was the 8 had a sway bar and was AT
Is a sway bar worth 5 seconds? Heck no

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Agreed, though the RX-8 has a better coefficient of drag than the FD, so it's not really a contributing factor here. (0.30 vs 0.33)

gwilliams6

you make my point. Now run them back to back at Road America and see the difference. This debate is no different that when the (tube frame, three-rotor) RX8s ran in the GT class of the Rolex and Continental series. The reliability of the rotary helped them win over 24-hours at Daytona, twice. And at tight tracks like Lime Rock and NJ Motorsport the underpowered RX8s used their superior handling to win consistently, but at longer power tracks they finished behind the higher power Porsches and Ferraris.

FD RX7s in the hands of a competent driver will win at longer power tracks. Hey I love both cars so I am happy either way. But they are very different in their capabilities. It is like comparing apples and oranges.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

The whole discussion here was about a future RX-7, and this particular strain started by discussion the comparison between the original stock 1993 RX-7 and the RX-8.

Debating that point with tube frame cars that are weight and power limited, and then have the rules adjust the power and weight further, doesn't actually support your argument.

I don't disagree with you that an original stock FD is faster on high power circuits with lots of straights, but please don't muddy the waters by bringing in cars that have no real relation to their stock street counterparts.

thunderberk

Yes RX-8 trackable car but FD has more torque and the finally result after straight lines and after corners FD behind on the RX-8. These criterias are on the paper. After a few laps twin turbo FD will going to be overheating maybe performance will decrease than first laps than RX-8 may have a chance on that yes but these on papers not real world i have ever seen any race result behind on RX-8 with Fd


Suspension set up's chassis rigidity winner RX-8 but on the power weight ratio and TORQUE is more important when you discuss both as i said above i have never seen any race which was won by any RX-8 vs FD RX-7

You never tell me powerband figures between N/A rotary and F/I rotary

Renesis peak power comes 8.200 and torque comes at 5.500 rpm on that ranges FD is flying over him.

Thats why i am saying rotary needs that Peak Torque and low rpm power figures.

Thank think 16X engine and discuss with me about power weight ratios of what a winner pure sports car must be..

Weight is always be important. If you have a power or not. It must be balanced on the car 50:50

RX-8 chasis rigidity the best thing about of this car. On power figures power weight ratio is worst for a sports car. It is sports car not pure sports car and i mean if next RX will be pure sports car it needs power if it has not to much power then it must be lightweight to balanced its performance wise.

Finally you didn't show me any reality experienced results about ''RX8 is faster than any RX7'' I ask FD RX-7 you wrote above many things but Performance wise yes STRAIGHT line FD behind on the RX-8. Winner is Winner !

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

http://s3.amazonaws.com/rapgenius/13...brick-wall.jpg

Edit: Maybe I shouldn't put that here. Just what it feels like. I'm fairly sure that Thunderberk feels the same way about me

gwilliams6

Hey RIWWP my point was just power vs handling vs different types of tracks, that's all. You missed my point. Of course a race RX8 does not compare to street cars. I thought you would see where I was going, but I guess not. I see other cars have been brought in to this thread so lol.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

I see where you were going, but you used the wrong support for your argument, since even if they were completely stock cars, having a governing body add or subtract weight and/or power and/or tire size to balance the racing field completely eliminates any real comparison of where each car does best.

It's like trying to compare cars on autocross by only looking at their PAX times and not the real times or classes.

gwilliams6

The GT class was pretty balanced even with the adjusting the governing body did. The racing RX8 simply fared well on the handling tracks and didn't fare well on the power tracks vs higher hp competition.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

It did just fine on high HP tracks until the rev limit reduction was imposed, dominating on quite a few tracks, which is my point. Your statement is only true after a rule change, which really muddies the argument.

Carbon8

iTrader: (4)

Whoever can claim any Rx7 is faster than an Rx8 is not driving the 8 to its full potential (Stock for Stock).

It will never be faster in the hands of a competent driver.

I also reiterate if you are racing any RX in a straight line you are doing it wrong, its not subject for comparison.


Make note @7.11, although an rx7 made fist it the top two fastest times were in 8's.

thunderberk

Boy as i wrote above show me any stock FD RX-7 & SE3P RX-8 race you are commentin like a politicians.

And second video black one is 3 rotor 20b Revolution RX-8 and Yellow Panspeed 13B P Port engine set up..

Make note @7.11 both r magic, legsport,realtech RX-8 too far away from the winning because they have fully tune n/a RX-8's..

MikeTyson8MyKids

iTrader: (1)

The 'AT' part of that may have something to do with the majority of those 5 seconds.....

Carbon8

iTrader: (4)

Prime example of a FD pulling on the straights only to have an 8 pass him in the turns, you can find a million of examples of 7's beating 8's and 8's beating 7's but the fact remains that in a driver oriented race with stock cars, no 7 will handle and perform at the same level.

slvrstreak

iTrader: (3)

If anything the AT would add a few seconds
No rev matching and shift lag makes for sloppy transitions and downshifting

thunderberk

What do you mean about beating ? I didn't see any beating videos of 7 vs 8 please be real.

FD RX-7 have torque more powerful lightweight..

RX-8 have less torque, less powerful a bit heavier, high powerband

I have watched many videos 8 always chasing 7's never see passing through videos because it has less power.

Be real please

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

I see exactly what he is talking about in the video.


He is being real. It is just a different reality than yours.

alnielsen

iTrader: (4)

In that video, the FD driver was missing his apexes. I don't think, from that short vid, that he was as capable a driver as the driver of the RX8.

thunderberk

Realities never be changes by any people. It is rule of the World !

If Water belongs H2O it is reality.

If A faster than B show me result. Your words always flying on the air.

Chasing a car behind it wind tunnel makes another performance and braking performance behind him is easy way etc lots of parametres on it.

I saw many chasing performance videos but at the end winner is RX-7 but in the sideways RX-8 handling is great i know