wildside50

This question might seem kind of odd, but I was just curious, how much does the drivetrain of a given car affect your opinion of the car. Let me preface

My favorite racing to watch is the SCCA Touring and GT classes. The Touring class includes a very wide variety of cars, including an AWD Audi, BMW RWD, and some FWD's like SRT-4 and Acura's. All of the cars are very competative (and driving skill seems to be the most important factor, as it should be for any good racing event).

So I'm just curious -- do you think RWD is supperior nearly irrelevent of other factors? Or is it just one cog in a mighty wheel of driving justice?

I own an SRT-4 (FWD) and now an RX-8 (with very little seat time so far), and my opinion is that any car can be a good race car, irrespective of drivetrain. I was just curious what people who have more seat time in a RWD (and maybe any who have some AWD experience) think on the topic of drivetrain.

mysql101

yeah, anything can be made to handle, but there will always be some level of inherent disadvantage / advantage within your choice. RWD usually being the one with least disadvantages.

wildside50

See now I hear that a lot, and granted, my time behind AWD and RWD combined is ab out 1/1000th of my time behind FWD, but to my mind, and my views of what AWD vehicles can do, I wonder how can RWD dare to compete with AWD? Seems to me if I run, I'm going to outpace the best olympic runner hopping. I like the idea of RWD, but only if I'm a good driver. Which I admit I am not yet. Yeah, on the road, I'm far more than competent. But as a race car driver, I'm very subpar. My only experience being autocross where, attending twice in two different SRT-4's, I placed 3rd to last and last in my category ("Beginner class" and D stock). For us crappy drivers, FWD sure is easy to figure out...

Thank God for DSC... hehe

mysql101

AWD has to contend with more weight and drive train losses. You can make up for that with cutting weight elsewhere and having a more powerful engine. It's advantage is primarily in moving from a dead stop. So if you're autocrossing, then I would still pick RWD over it.

alnielsen

iTrader: (4)

Since mysql101 has taken on AWD, I will take on FWD.
FWD has to do everything with it's front wheels (acceleration, braking and cornering). The back wheels are just there for balance. That plus the fact that the engine and transmission weight is on top or in front of the front of the front axle, which changes the weight distribution of the car heavily to the front. Because of this, many compromises are required to make the car handle properly. Large swaybars and springs are used on the front to make the car neutral.
The reason all those cars, you listed, can compete in the same class is because they are equalized with weight or hp penalties so they can run together.

BTW: DSC will slow you down drastically when autocrossing. Turn it off.

delhi

It comes down to road surface. On a race track where slick tires are permitted, the advantages of an AWD system' traction is almost nullified. And with the added weight it becomes a disadvantage to 2WD. But when it rains, AWD cars will own the track (see the Audis in the SCCA races).
In terms of RWD/FWD, you want capabilities to be equally distributed so that the car does not "out-drive" the wheels. In FWD, the front tires has to accelerate, brake and steer. With RWD, the front tires deals mainly with steering while the power are taken cared of by the rear tires. With RWD, you also get the advantage of weight balance with the rear diff and sometimes even tranny moved to the rear. While with FWD, most of the weight is at the front while the rear wheels are just for support like a shopping cart wheels. This is why FWD cars have a tendency to understeer.

mysql101

http://img.ircimages.com/ircimages/d...f5fc6f8afa.jpg

The Mighty Red

What is this? A comparison of how an AWD car corners in comparison to a RWD?

Edit:
Ya know, one of my favorite things about AWD cars is the 4 wheel powerslide. Check this out - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXaCcQQ4-p0 I want one of these!

mysql101

no, it's just a cool sliding video that doesn't apply to this thread, but might be useful for making inaccurate assumptions about powertrains.

Renesis_8

more like the effects of an engine hanging out the @$$. Good for a 1:99 front to rear distribution.
________
HOW TO ROLL A BLUNT

wildside50

If you wanna see a pretty hot 4 wheel power slide, go to www.roadandtrack.com and on the front page there is a video of the new Evo X vs STI. They throw that Evo like it's nothing...

wildside50

You know, I don't remember where I read it, but I read an article on the RX-8 and they said they oddly got faster lap times with DSC on. Go figure. And while it may slow me down on autox, so will spinning 3 times. I'm a COMPLETE RWD newbie. If I could almost spin out in my SRT-4...

Anyway -- does anyone know where you can get info on the HP and weight of the cars that run in the SCCA ST and GT classes? I'm just curious. (The SRT-4 won at Road America last year, hehe. It also went off the track at just about every other event... rookie drivers, psh.)

the stig

the evo is almost computer EVERYTHING, that is why evo has very very little understeer (the evo 8 and 9) computer make the car go oversteer than understeer which is very good.

and as for STi it has the DCCD control, you can put more power in to the rear and create something close to a RWD, its very fun with you mess with it.


my answer to the title, is YES. After having a AWD wrx, then RWD rx8, i will not go back to FWD car. even i drove my friend's rsx-s which handles really good, but there is no FUN! you dont have chance to encounter the oversteer on the FWD car. everytime hit a apex on the FWD car you just have to listen you tires screaming because of the understeer.

for DD you will not notice a big deal on the FWD, but if you like driving and you like hit those apex corner, dont get FWD