playdoh43

from auto week forum
http://www.npr.org/news/specials/gmv...omparison.html
U.S. Market Share
Source: First nine months of 2005, Harbour Consulting

GM:
26.8%

Toyota:
13%

Vehicle Production in North America 2004
Source: GM & Toyota

GM:
5.2 million

Toyota:
1.44 million

Profitability per Vehicle
Source: 2005 Harbour Report

GM:
Loses $2,331 per vehicle

Toyota:
Makes $1,488 per vehicle

Net Income in the First 9 Months of 2005
Source: Harbour Consulting

GM:
$4.15 billion loss from North America operations off-set by profits in Europe and Asia for an overall loss of $3.8 billion

Toyota:
$7.89 billion (¥921.7 billion, converted at 116.81 yen to $1)

Number of Plants in North America
Source: GM & Toyota

GM:
77, all unionized. Plans to close 12 facilities by 2008 (see press release).

Toyota:
12, three unionized in Long Beach, Calif., Fremont, Calif., and Tijuana, Mexico.

Average Plant Capacity Utilization
Source: Harbour Report 2005

GM:
85%

Toyota:
107% using overtime workers

Production Time per Vehicle
Source: 2005 Harbour Report

GM:
34.3 hours, 2.5% improvement since 2003

Toyota:
27.9 hours, 5.5% improvement since 2003

North American Workforce
Source: GM & Toyota, Dec. 2005

GM:
White collar: 36,000

Production: 106,000.

Retirees: 460,000

Toyota:

White collar: 17,000 Production: 21,000 Retirees: 1,600

Average Hourly Salary for Non-Skilled, Assembly Line Worker
Source: Center for Automotive Research

GM:
$31.35/hour
NOTE: Includes idle workers still on payroll and those on protected status.

Toyota:
$27/hour
NOTE: Includes year-end bonus.

Health Care Costs per Vehicle in 2004
Source: 2005 Harbour Report & A.T. Kearny Inc.

GM:
$1,525

Toyota:
$201

Average Labor Cost per U.S. Hourly Worker
Source: GM & Toyota

GM:
$73.73

Toyota:
$48

Worldwide Sales in 2004
Source: Harbour Consulting

GM:
8.9 million

Toyota:
7.7 million

Global Market Share
Source: Automotive News annual ranking of the world's automakers by sales and production, figures for 2004

GM:
13.2%, down from 14.6% in 2002

Toyota:
10.9% up from 10.6% in 2002

Worldwide Vehicle Production Projected for 2005
Source: 2005 Harbour Report

GM:
9 million

Manufacturing operations in 32 countries, vehicles sold in 200 countries

Toyota:
8.4 million

Manufacturing operations in 26 countries and regions, vehicles sold in over 170 countries

playdoh43

GM's north american workforce is sooooo messed up.

army_rx8

^from looking at that i'd have to agree.......wonder if they are going to get on their horse and fix it asap...wel maybe a fast fix is a bad idea....bu who cares they should fix it (slow or fast).... come on GM make america proud

BlueEyes

They'll have to get rid of the unions to fix it. They're to stupid to realize what they're doing to the company.

playdoh43

they realize it alright, but they are powerless to stop it. the union is too powerful

BlueEyes

No, the union doesn't realize what they're doing to GM. It should be obvious to GM, and I'm sure they try to explain until they're blue in the face. However, the union will shrug it off as lies.

Magic8

The unions used to be the change agent but now they are the status quo. When anyone is in the status quo position they always resist change. The world is very different now, so the unions has to wake up and figure out how to adapt or go the way of the dodo birds.

BlueEyes

Yup. I look at these numbers, and have to wonder how the union can't see that they're part of the problem.

Profitability per Vehicle
GM:
Loses $2,331 per vehicle
Toyota:
Makes $1,488 per vehicle

Average Labor Cost per U.S. Hourly Worker
GM:
$73.73
Toyota:
$48

Damn, it doesn't get much more obvious than that.

playdoh43

GM has been trying to downsize for years, but the Union threatens to strike if GM tries to close too many plants. Theres all kinds of pressures from the unions that limits the management of GM from doing a lot of things to turn around the company. Give GM some credit, they know the union is making them uncompetitive,they are just very limited in terms of what they can do about the situation. The union it self is a jumbled mass of ineficiency also, with people that have different ideas fighting amonst each other, its very ugly.
the bottom line is, whats best for GM's interest is in conflict with what the workers believe is in their best interest. closing plants would put whole towns and thousands out of work, so even though each worker knows its not in GM's best interest they tend to just worry about them selves. which is short sighted since its killing GM and theyd loose their jobs anyway later on, but its totally natural human behavior. The threat of strikes puts immense political and financial stress on GM.

rx8wannahave

460,000 retired people aint helping the matter either....WOW!

But...I'm not into taking Ma and Pa's money away, but mybe the union should start by droping average hourly rate from $34 to 30...then cut the hours to build a car from 34 hours to 30 hours.

Call it the wannahave 34/30 plan...lol

What' sad is how can you take about 6 hours more per car than Toyota and build cars with less quality?

Gosh...the US car companies are in worse shape than I thought.

therm8

I listened to GM's 3rd quarter earnings conference call, recently. They have an extensive turn-around plan in place. North America was really the only place they lost money. They gained a few % in Europe. Doubled profit in Asia Pacific (includes Oz). Stayed the same in Latin America. GMAC increased profit by 8% while taking a hit with Katrina. They made a deal with the UAW to cut healthcare costs by 25% (aprox. $1 billion savings). They're implementing displacement on demand in more vehicles and persuing a line of hybrids. They still have billions in liquidity, they can afford the losses this year. I think the unions are finally realizing they're part in the equation and are beginning to cooperate. Don't expect them to change drastically in a short amount of time. GM will be back in force in 1.5 to 2 years.

NomisR

Well, it's not hard considering that UAWU would fight to resist any changes that would automate the building/assembly process to make the manufacturing process more efficient. This would require their workers to relearn new equipments and causes GM to reduce their workforce which is a no-no for the UAWU.

Time to step into the 21st Century!

DarkBrew

Unions start cooperating ONLY when it is in their own interests but in this case it may be too late. GM lacks the money to demolish the old plants (a la Chrysler) and build new state-of-the-art plants. The unions also do their best to stiffle innovation and productivity whenever they feel theartened. Add it all up and I think that GM will get much worse before the foundations for a recovery can be laid.

playdoh43

i actually agree, theres only so little GM can do about their labor problems, it will take a long time for them to turn it around. By then, they will probably no longer be the dominant firm that they were. IMO socialistic entities such as unions just makes firms uncompetitive.

Krankor

Ok, so here's the one bit I don't understand:

Don't all of the US car manufacturers use the same union? How is it that the union is crushing GM more then Ford or Chrysler?

DarkBrew

The unions are only hindering the restructuring plan The real cause of GM's trouble is old plants, inefficient production methods and low quality over the past few decades.

Edit: They would not have as many retirees if they were more efficient over tha last 30 years.

Magic8

nearly half a million retirees with nice benefits will definitely kill the company. I don't think the other auto makers have it this bad.

rx8wannahave

Yup...I think in the future we will all be either robot or computer tech's...lol, what boring jobs...lol...j/k

About unions, we better find a middle ground and solution because I for one wish we had a union but at the same time I do realize the trouble they can cause.

But...what do we do, "trust" the big corporations? HA...and another HA, all they do is squeeze more and more out of the employee's benefits. They are highly untrustworthy...

...yet, while the unions have a noble beginning they often fall into corruption or basically blackmail the corporations which hurt the company.

So...what's the solution?

I'm still in shock over the 460K retired people...wow!

ptiemann

I believe that these are numbers for North America only. When did Toyota open their first plant in North America? I would assume that Toyota has more retired workers in Japan.

-Peter

myfuncar

GM got a huge concession on health care for retirees. It's either half the loaf or nothing, so they're taking soem concessions.

While I agree that the unions are totally unreasonable, anti-progress, and full of people who just want more than they are worth (see the average hourly wage numbers) the management at GM has known what the parameters are since they were set, so their costs aren't a surprise to them.

And you have to admit that GM has some pretty crappy vehicles, many are unattractive, and their old pushrod V6 engines are terrible - and most descend from a Buick design of the late 1950s.

I think the only way to save GM at this point is to consolidate Buick, Chevy, and Saturn, and kill GMC (or kill Chevy trucks) and sell Hummer as a sub-brand of GMC or Chevy trucks. The marketing and other costs saved would be tremendous. And about this time next year, GM's going to be looking for crumbs to meet payroll. They should continue to hammer on the unions to get realistic, but most of that damage is done.

the combined division would have a more vehicles, but this way, they could kill the redundant minivans and SUV's, and some overalpping cars, and just keep one complete line. It could have a plain jane, middle, and luxury version of each (they do anyway).

Pointiac continues to have a profitable niche, as does Cadillac.

I don't think that GM is realistic enough to do anything like this, and therefore, I think they will either be in bankruptcy eventually, or forced to sell Hummer or Cadillac or some profitable name/division, probably to Toyota. Way to go, USA!! Scary, isn't it?

rx8wannahave

Well, I hope that does not happen and I hope GM and Ford take the crown back...it would be a shame to lose the last true American car companies...a HUGE shame...

bascho

GM and Ford have had these high labor costs for years and did little to change. It was the rising cost of fuel and the their narrow focus on high-profit gas-guzzling SUV's and trucks that got them into trouble this year. Three years ago when gas was still inexpensive, GM and Ford were getting fat off the profits of their product pipelines......but things have changed and Ford and GM had no quality vehicles in 'new consumer market'. It takes years to develop vehicle platforms and fuel efficient powertrains ......so automakers must have a diversified product line-up or a crystal ball. Ford and GM had neither and that is why they are in trouble. Are GM and Ford capable of making great fuel-efficient, visually appealing cars to please the new consumer market......absolutely. It just that the US will not see these models for several years. Toyota and Honda had the foresight to have a diversified line-up of fuel efficient models to compete in a fuel conscience US market......that is why they are cleaning up right now. Sure the Big 3 have labor cost issue and health cost issues....but that is nothing new.

I personally feel the UAW and all unions have lost sight of the reason they exist. If you can believe it, Ford and GM (and Delphi) have job banks. A job bank is when a union member gets paid to stay at home, often receiving 100% of their pay. GM alone has more than 5,000 union employees in a job bank. No ****. You telling me that that is fair! I thought that unions were created to protect the working man against unfairness. Job banks are perfect example of the union going too far. And base salaries of $25-27/hr.....are you kidding? I think that is extortion....$60-80K a year for work that requires almost no skill or intelligence???? If Ford or GM was to have open enrollement for factory jobs at $15-18/hr....there would be lines of people down the street. Unions need to go away.....and I think in the first half of this century.....we'll see that happen.

myfuncar

Could not agree more with both paragraphs. Both parties have done nothing to improve the situation except pretend like they have some sort of monopoly on car buyers. Its a shame. Now the question is, can GM pull out in time? Like I said, I'm not convinced.

bascho

I think they can as a company....but a lot of people are going to be hurt in the process.