Joel Ramsey

Good point Fanman. The first place GM should start cutting jobs and wages is in upper management. They are the ones who okayed all this mess to begin with. The ones who are loosing their jobs are regular dudes just trying to make a living doing exactly what they were told to do.

jaguargod

I don't think it is news that American cars are crap, especially to the car companies. That is why they only give you a 3 year warranty. They know that is as long as it is going to operate correctly. If GM goes under, they go under. Someone else will buy them and start over, or absorb them. But the government shouldn't save their ***. That is just rewarding mediocrity. As far as the unions, they should just lay everyone off, and abolish the unions and then rehire (I know that is overly simplistic, but you get the idea). Most of those guys will be glad to work without a union. Most of them probably only joined because they had no choice. It's like American Airlines fighting to keep Southwest Airlines out of DFW Airport. American is so inefficient that they know they can't compete with a company like Southwest who has streamlined their operations. Why should Southwest be punished because American Airlines won't trim the fat?

Shoafb

Yea, that's why they all where rated better then mazda by JD power

American cars have come a long way from the old days. Do I like the designs from GM lately? No. (except the corvette, and a few trucks)

jaguargod

All I know is that just by driving my Mazda for the last 3 months, I know it is better quality than the two Fords and one Chevrolet I had prior. Regardless of what JD Power says, do you honestly believe that domestic vehicles are better quality than foreign? My wife drives a Toyota Camry, and I would buy one again over any domestic manufacturers same-class vehicle, even if it was twice the price. You know why? Because it's worth it.

Shoafb

3 months isn't long enough to judge the quality of much really.... but this is an rx-8, mazda's flagship so to speak so of course it should feel solid and well put together. What where your previous cars that you are comparing your 8 to? Did they sticker for 30-35k?


My wife drives a Toyota Camry, and I would buy one again over any domestic manufacturers same-class vehicle, even if it was twice the price. You know why? Because it's worth it

So you would pay 60k for the Camry over a Cadillac CTS-V and pocket 5-10k while you are at it?

mkaresh

This book has received far more attention than it deserves. You can read my review on Amazon for the details: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...books&n=507846. Such an awful book the review was pure joy to write.

jaguargod

I would never buy a Cadillac even if it was 3 times cheaper than a Camry. I think they look dated, with too many hard lines. It is definitely one of the car lines that needs some fresh ideas in the style department, in my opinion. Of course I wouldn't buy a Camry for $60K, but honestly, at this point in my life, I wouldn't spend that kind of money on any car.

Who are you to say that 3 months isn't enough time for me to know if the car is better quality? My last 3 vehicles were a Ford Probe, a Chevy truck and a Ford Explorer Sport Trac (The Sport Trac did have an original sticker price of close to $30K I believe). Not all are the same vehicle class, but I am comparing the difference in quality, not performance.

shelleys_man_06

Like someone else said, it's no secret American cars aren't anywhere up to par than foreign competitors. As an engineering student, what's built here is a reflection on what we're capable of. The Big Three can come up with these wickedly awesome concept cars, like the Shelby GR-1, and then when they try to trickle the technology and styling down to their normal cars, something if not everything gets lost along the way (read: Ford 500). The only car I've seen that has decent styling is the Corvette (always), and the Chrysler 300C, but that's my opinion. The last American car my parents owned was a dingleberry of an Oldsmobile Cutlass Sierra. We traded it in for a Toyota Previa in 1991, and we haven't looked back. I'd like to own a 'Vette someday, and that'll be the only American car I can dream about. I don't know who the Big Three are hiring in their R&D and design department, but sorry guys, you suck. You suck because you lack imagination. I'll rag on Ford because of their affixation on neo-classical designs. Seriously, the Ford Mustang could've been a lot better, but instead, it's a bloated version of the original. Wait for the Mustang II to make a return in 2009. I hope you guys in Detroit are reading this, and hire me because I have ideas, crazy ideas. Call me.

buzzardsluck

and we just bought a truck before all these discounts hit! god-damn-it

Rotarian_SC

GM just needs some exciting cars. It is good now that they're getting the idea by putting the LS in some sedans, but the sedans they choose are heavy and ugly. The last area where they used to hold an edge was the truck market, but that is disappearing quickly because of the foreign competitors. GM is probably paying employees too much, but Unions shouldn't go and GM should actually get some lightweight cars and stuff the LS in them, and make some nice handling cars even. They've proven they can with the Vette.

JanSolo

It's all so disturbingly true.




*Excludes 2005 Chevrolet Corvette and medium duty trucks. Take delivery by July 5, 2005. See dealer for details.

See:

http://www.gm.com/employeediscount.d..._com&version=1

RX8_Buckeye

I'll keep that in mind... When things get really desperate we'll call in shelleys_man_06 to save the day. I don't think anyone who hasn't worked in the automotive industry has any true perspective of the root causes of the problems. It goes far deeper than us "sucky people" working in R&D. I'm surprised at the words you've chosen.

shelleys_man_06

I forget that Buckeye here works for Ford. So much for dumping my resume. Oh well. GPA isn't high enough anyways .

Anyway, **** yeah it's hard to design cars, especially with a market with people waiting and wanting. The cars companies come out with, or union policies, engineering, etc., aren't a result of lack of enthusiasm. I must digress. My belief is it's a result of our incessant bitching from people like me. It's also my belief is that public opinion makes these cars, and no they're not going to please everyone. Until people can evolve into clouds of energy, we're stuck with **** that we may or may not like. Yeah I'm going off on a tangent. This thread's supposed to be about employee discounts offered to us "normies."

Shoafb

Didn't they just bump production by something like 80k units this year to try and keep up with demand? They must be doing something right. You can hardly find a GT anywhere to even test drive now. I am sure Ford is just so disappointed with their design team over this fiasco.

snizzle

Yeah I read somewhere that some dealers are even buying GTs on ebay to try and fill their orders. Ford is telling many of the dealers that they are working at capacity to produce the car already.

Joel Ramsey

That's great to hear! Unfortunately for the owners, they will see themselves at every stoplight in the near future but This should help Ford rebound a little.

Shoafb

I don't understand how this is unfortunate for them. The volume of Mustang gts on the road will ensure a big aftermarket for parts and tuning of the car at reasonable prices.

So you desire a car that nobody else would want?

snizzle

I guess he's saying that he desires a car that is not as common. It does make a car a little less desirable if everyone else has one and it's all you see on the road. But like you said, there are advantages to that as well.

For Ford, that's all good news.

RX8_Buckeye

It's not unfortunate for them as long as they don't mind having a car that is not very unique. Sure, they can customize their vehicles with a vast array of aftermarket parts, but it's just not the same as having a unique production vehicle. To many, there is something to be said about having a vehicle that is relatively uncommon. New Mustangs turn heads right now, but once the market is flooded with them, people won't look twice. For those who crave attention, this could be viewed as unfortunate.

Joel Ramsey

Snizzle & Buckeye know what I'm talking about. What I want is a car that everyone wants but can't have, i.e. Ferrari F430. I can't afford that so I look for a car that is not "popular". I think Honda Accords & Toyota Camry's are fantastic cars but it would pain me to drive one because they are everywhere. They are "popular" cars. That's why my second car is a Mazda 6 5-door. They are common compared to a Ferrari but practically non-existent compared to an Accord or Camry.