cgrx

I think so, just a little bit though ~The GTO looks kinda like one too

VRRocket

I think Pontiac needs to change designers.....is it just me, or can any of you tell the difference between a Grand Prix, Grand Am, or GTO coming toward you? No question, I'd love to have the motor the GTO has in it, but it looks like a Grand Am. The G6, although better than the Grand Am in looks, still has the same overall look. It's okay to have a design theme throughout the line (Dodge with the crosshair grill, BMW with the dual kidney grill), but make them look a little more different. Just my $.02.

FamilyGuy

GM (and thus, Pontiac) has been doing really well with reliability in recent years. Lots of people won't buy them anyway because they got burned in the past, and that's their right - but don't assume the new stuff will automatically be junk too.

And if I recall correctly the Malibu V6 and SAAB 9-3 weigh less than the Impala, which is about 3300 pounds. That's not too heavy for a midsize car.

On the other hand, I don't see how they can offer a GXP while keeping the thing FWD. If they don't drop a limited slip differential in there, I would think the handling would be pitiful.

Mugatu

iTrader: (1)

what's with the sunroof with the 3 slats sticking up in the back? That's pretty friggin weird. I'd never buy one of those...the GTO on the other hand is promising, IF they decide to make the one like that orange revamp with the new styling.

Silver Ecstasy

I beg to differ. Being an owner of a Grand Am...they really did not go with our input. I've attended dinners with GM and their TDM aftermarket department in Auburn Hills, i've helped with input and it seemed like they took all of our ideas on what would be nice, and put it into what we all thought would be nice..I just don't like it.

FamilyGuy

It's not supposed to be a GTO type vehicle. It's supposed to be a sportier alternative to the traditional midsize family car, i.e. GM's competitor for the Mazda 6. (They probably should have just gone for truth and advertising and named it the GM 6 :D )

TSi RX-8

beautiful car but I dont know if I would buy a Pontiac with their atrocious resale value...

stangmatt66

Sad that Pontiac is stuck with the iron OHV engines while Buick LaCrosse gets a version of the Caddy CTS/SRX/Oldsmobile aluminum DOHC V6.

To me, the G6 really looks like the current Camry, but with better, smoother style. I love the dip in the window line at the mirrors and how it rises to the rear quarter panel.

The interior is gross...WAY too much black and grey plastic...typical Pontiac.

Love the multi-pane sunroof!! Will it leak?

JimW

I like it! "Oh", and there were a lot of happy Oprah Winfrey guest's yesterday!

FamilyGuy

What's wrong with OHV for V engines?

OHC technology actually predates OHV. Plus, having one camshaft between the banks of cylinders saves a lot of space and mass vs. having one or two camshafts above each row for V engines. GM's OHV engines give class competitive performance and fuel economy - the Malibu V6 is the most fuel efficient V6 car in its class. The Silverado V8s are relatively weak for the modern full size pickup market, but they also give better than average mileage.

The only real problem with GM's OHV engines is their pitiful NVH (Noise, Vibration, and Harshness) management. Drive an Accord V6, Passat V6, or a Camry V6, and you can barely hear the engine unless you floor it - then you get a mild but nice throaty rumble. Drive a Malibu V6 or an Impala, and the engine sounds taxed at modest acceleration and screams like it's being tortured under heavy acceleration - even though it performs just fine. If they just spend a few extra bucks putting some sound dampening material in the right place, they would be fine.

stangmatt66

Exactly my point. OHV is a venerable technology, but when other's in the G6's class are using engines which are more refined, it's sad to see Pontiac not keep up with industry trends.

mysql101

Yeah.... but upon further inspection, Oprah didn't give away anything. Pontaic did, but Oprah got the credit.

TownDrunk

Good bit of information... Thanks.

MTLbroker

I feel sorry for the SAAB brand. They will never live this down........

dwill9578

their right still a YACK

stangmatt66

GM already has an all aluminum 3.6L DOHC V6 in their stables. It powers the Caddy CTS/SRX/STS and new Buick LaCrosse. No new tooling required.

rotten42

a think so too.......all pontiacs seem to look too much the same......I wonder if their build quality will improve?

FamilyGuy

I didn't explain myself properly. I don't believe that GM's NVH problems are tied to engine configuration at all. My wife's Honda has much less road noise at 60 mph than my Chevy. It is not that the DOHC engine in her car is quieter than the OHV engine in mine, it is that every external noise is quieter in her car than it is in mine.

GM doesn't need to change anything about their engines. They need to change their sound deadening material. I believe people think GM makes lousy engines only because GM is terrible about sound dampening.

Compare two GM cars:

The CTS with a 5 speed automatic weighs 3500 pounds. It has a 3.6 liter aluminum DOHC V6 rated for 260 horsepower and 255 ft*lbs of torque. 4 camshafts, 24 valves, relatively tall engine block. Gas mileage 18/28 on premium fuel.

The Grand Prix GTP with a 4 speed automatic weighs 3580 pounds. It has a 3.8 liter supercharged iron OHV V6 rated for 260 horsepower and 280 ft*lbs of torque. 1 camshaft, 12 valves, relatively short engine block. Gas mileage 18/28 on premium fuel.

The Pontiac is longer and wider but only weighs 80 pounds more despite having an iron engine compared to the aluminum one in the CTS. (I wouldn't be surprised if the CTS weighs only a little less because it has all sorts of extra sound deadening materials sprinkled throughout.) The Pontiac has one less gear in the transmission but gets the same gas mileage. What technical advantage does the CTS engine provide? As far as I can tell, nothing beyond the ability to have 'DOHC' on the dealer sticker.

JimW

Yes A lot of people thought it was Oprah and it was actually Pontiac. I think the Idea was Operah's to give a few cars away and Pontiac liked the idea so much, they gave more cars away. It's a good thing, for those in need!

PoorCollegeKid

A 3.6L DOHC V6 != 3.9L OHV V6. The engines are very different, although their displacements are similar. Converting the 3.9L OHV V6 to aluminum from iron would take quite a bit of R&D to do right and would necesitate new machinery to work the aluminum in to the right dimensions for that specific engine. Even if the machines that are making the Al 3.6L DOHC V6 could be converted to make a 3.9L OHV engine, they simply wouldn't be able to produce enough engines to satisfy demand for both the 3.6L DOHC and the 3.9L OHV at the same time, so GM would need more machinery anyway. All of this adds up to a lot of money. In fact, it would probably be cheaper to just design a whole new engine than it would be to convert an existing iron design to aluminum. Since it's even cheaper just to leave the current engine alone, that's probably what GM is going to do.

stangmatt66

Dude, you don't have to do anything...no 'converting' necessary....All GM would have to do is drop their existing 3.6L Al DOHC V6 into the engine bay of the G6. Perhaps that wasn't clear enough in my previous post.

MikeW

Not going to happen. One there isn't enough room, first off the Vee angle is different 60 vs 90. I guess you could put it in but you would have to remove the complex manifold for the simple manifold for the 3.6, that reduces peak hp and torque. The CTS has room because the engine is mounted back and low, back so the leading link steering system's front mounted rack needs space, and low because it (sigma) is rear axle drive. and you want (need) a low transmission tunnel front and back. and the saddle fuel tank is under the seats.

I don't think that the 'DOD' 3.9 will come out until the X22F six speed automatic comes out, right not the 3.5 is coupled to the 4t45e not the 4t65 of 3800SC fame. The 3.5 has already 'maxxed' out the tranmission.

It really doesn't matter which grade of fuel you use in the 3.6 because of cylinder specific knock control which the 3800 doesn't have. the 3.6 can rev higher than 6000 rpm.

PoorCollegeKid

By dropping the 3.6L DOHC V6 in to the engine bay, you'd be giving up any weight advantage that you would have gained by converting from an iron block to an aluminum one. Along with the physical problems presented by the larger, bulkier DOHC valve train, the 3.9L OHV in its current, iron form probably isn't all that much heavier than the 3.6L aluminum engine is, considering that the iron 3.8L OHV L36 weighs about the same as the aluminum VQ35DE. Swapping the engines wouldn't give much of a gain and so would be more of a problem than it's worth.

Overport

the front 3/4 makes it look like a honda accord. how much does it weigh?

MikeW

The VQ35 weighs about 350 lbs. The 3800sc weighs >=400 lbs (it is an anvil) The 3800 non supercharged is >375 lbs