Ford ripped twice by Car and Driver
04-29-2006, 09:26 AM
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Ford ripped twice by Car and Driver
First by Csaba Csere ("Ford drives its 13-year-old SVT group off a cliff"):
Conclusion: Ford killing off the SVT group is just another sign that Ford is a company headed down the toilet (not that it had far to go).
The second article is "Fords That Could Save Ford Now: And they're built for Ford. Just not for America" by Ray Hutton and Aaron Robinson. The article is about 4 vehicles (Ford Falcon XR6 Turbo, Ford Falcon FPV GT Boss 290, Ford Territory Ghia AWD, and Ford Focus ST) that are build by Ford overseas but not brought here.
Conclusion: Ford still making bad decisions after all these years.
Originally Posted by Csaba Csere
Since the dawn of the new millenium, there have been more new vehicles for sale than customers eager to buy them. That's why we've seen steady escalation in rebates, cut-rate leases, and every manner of employee, relative, loyalty, and other trumped up discount deals.
But I don't hear about giveaways for M5s, Charger SRT8s, E55 AMGs, or Mazdaspeed 6s. Such models attract buyers who are motivated by performance more than price. They bring some glamour to their parent models, attract customers to dealerships they might not otherwise visit, and generate sales that actually bring profits to its car manufacturers and dealers alike.
...
That's why just about every manufacturer is working overtime to establish an in-house tuner brand or expand the one that it already has. Success in this arena does not come overnight, however. Buyers of these cars are more knowledgeable and discriminatory than the drones who are only price-shopping transportation appliances.
...
The current mantra in Detroit is to have "products that are designed and built to satisfy the customer." Once you get beyond trying to fathom what the previous strategy might have been, you can only be amazed that a company pursues this new goal by doing its best to kill a group that has been satisfying motivated customers for more than 10 years.
But I don't hear about giveaways for M5s, Charger SRT8s, E55 AMGs, or Mazdaspeed 6s. Such models attract buyers who are motivated by performance more than price. They bring some glamour to their parent models, attract customers to dealerships they might not otherwise visit, and generate sales that actually bring profits to its car manufacturers and dealers alike.
...
That's why just about every manufacturer is working overtime to establish an in-house tuner brand or expand the one that it already has. Success in this arena does not come overnight, however. Buyers of these cars are more knowledgeable and discriminatory than the drones who are only price-shopping transportation appliances.
...
The current mantra in Detroit is to have "products that are designed and built to satisfy the customer." Once you get beyond trying to fathom what the previous strategy might have been, you can only be amazed that a company pursues this new goal by doing its best to kill a group that has been satisfying motivated customers for more than 10 years.
The second article is "Fords That Could Save Ford Now: And they're built for Ford. Just not for America" by Ray Hutton and Aaron Robinson. The article is about 4 vehicles (Ford Falcon XR6 Turbo, Ford Falcon FPV GT Boss 290, Ford Territory Ghia AWD, and Ford Focus ST) that are build by Ford overseas but not brought here.
Originally Posted by Ray Hutton and Aaron Robinson
Ford needs something, too. Badly. Bribing America to buy Fords lost the House of Henry $1.6 billion in 2005 even as market share continued to wither. Ford subsequently said it would padlock 14 factories and pink-slip 30,000 workers, gutting one-quarter of its carmaking capacity.
...
The fact that they're niche models is precisely why Ford needs to figure out a way to bring them to America and sell them at a profit. Because as difficult as they might be to import, surely that is a less expensive solution than developing separate limited-production vehicles dedicated to the American market alone.
...
The fact that they're niche models is precisely why Ford needs to figure out a way to bring them to America and sell them at a profit. Because as difficult as they might be to import, surely that is a less expensive solution than developing separate limited-production vehicles dedicated to the American market alone.
Last edited by sti_eric; 04-29-2006 at 10:42 AM.
04-29-2006, 03:49 PM
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^^^^
RG is spot on......like he 'almost' always is.....
..................
As you know the Ford Falcon XR6 Turbo, Ford Falcon FPV GT Boss 290, Ford Territory Ghia AWD (SUV) are made in Australia, the Territory is exported to New Zealand and South Africa in RHD.
I am sure Ford Australia could convert to LHD for Export to US, even if its to compliment the other bloody awful looking cars that Ford US have designed and made, sorry guys..
RG is spot on......like he 'almost' always is.....
..................
As you know the Ford Falcon XR6 Turbo, Ford Falcon FPV GT Boss 290, Ford Territory Ghia AWD (SUV) are made in Australia, the Territory is exported to New Zealand and South Africa in RHD.
I am sure Ford Australia could convert to LHD for Export to US, even if its to compliment the other bloody awful looking cars that Ford US have designed and made, sorry guys..
04-29-2006, 06:12 PM
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I think if they bring the Falcon over, they need to freshen it up a bit - it's looking a bit old. I think that might affect its sales stateside and make Ford think it was a mistake to bring it over, even though it's just the kind of vehicle they need. If they just freshened it up a little, I think it could be quite a looker and a driving force behind Ford righting their ship.
04-29-2006, 06:54 PM
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Yeah. If the current Falcon came over, I think the car would flop just like the GTO did. I remember C&D and others ranting about how great the Monero was in the late '90s when it came out. Skip ahead a few years to our shore and the GTO is being called bland, out-dated, etc. That Falcon is already several years old, so by the time it made it to the US people would probably complain about it the same way they did with the GTO.
04-29-2006, 09:04 PM
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Bummed, but bring on OU!
I'd love to see the Euro Focus ST over here, but sadly it could probably put the Mustang GT to shame so we'll likely either never see it or will see it only in detuned form (kinda like the old SVT models). Hot looking little hatch though.
Here in the states the public is in the "bigger must be better" camp.
Here in the states the public is in the "bigger must be better" camp.
04-29-2006, 11:30 PM
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Originally Posted by s13lover
Yeah. If the current Falcon came over, I think the car would flop just like the GTO did. I remember C&D and others ranting about how great the Monero was in the late '90s when it came out. Skip ahead a few years to our shore and the GTO is being called bland, out-dated, etc. That Falcon is already several years old, so by the time it made it to the US people would probably complain about it the same way they did with the GTO.
I know a new Monaro is due in Australia, and it wouldn't surprise me if Falcon is in the same position. What's wrong with starting with that car?
Besides... who said to bring it as-is? There is always platform sharing ala Mazda6/Fusion and Mazda3/S40/Focus...
04-30-2006, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Japan8
Besides... who said to bring it as-is? There is always platform sharing ala Mazda6/Fusion and Mazda3/S40/Focus...
Call me crazy, but I think bringing something as-is would sell better than letting Ford try to turn some fun-to-drive Euro sedan into a pseudo-SUV with wide seats, giant steering wheel and 1000 cupholders.
05-19-2006, 08:52 PM
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I have heard in an RX-7 forum that Mazda was not allowed to have 3 rotor engines or very powerful 2 rotors so they wouldn't compete with the Mustangs in power. Is this true? If ford went down, Mazda then could come out with very nice 3 and 4 rotor engine cars in higher price ranges as well as adding a lot of horses to the 8. This would give much more respect to the RX-8 for having a rotary too. The rotary engine would do much better as an engine for a car at least $60,000 because those buyers do not care about gas.
05-20-2006, 08:48 AM
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Why do people believe car rags with regards to future internal automotive divisions decisions? Did either of these articles quote a Ford executive about SVT being killed off? Nope......why, because it's not true.
If Ford has to use so many incentives to sell cars......why are they offering the lowest incentives compared to GM and Chrysler? Chrysler is actually offering the largest incentives......you know, that company with all the Hemi's.
Why does anyone think Mazda is being held back by Ford.......is Mazda not the strongest they've ever been? People that think the Mustang prevents Mazda from offering a 3-rotor or 4-rotor is an idiot. The only thing preventing a 3-rotor or 4-rotor is the fact that it is horribly inefficient. Why spend $60K on a Mazda with 400 hp that gets 8 mpg when you can spend $60K on a Vette and 400hp and 25 mpg? Mazda is not stupid people......the rotary is not the greatest engine design of all time.
The Focus ST is no where near as fast as a Mustang.....that is not why it's not offered here in the US. It's because Americans will not pay over $30K for a Focus like they do in Europe. Do you think Ford likes spending extra $$$ to develop 2 versions of a car for two markets (North America and rest of the world)? Of course not.......but fat, lazy, bigger is better Americans don't give them a choice.
If Ford has to use so many incentives to sell cars......why are they offering the lowest incentives compared to GM and Chrysler? Chrysler is actually offering the largest incentives......you know, that company with all the Hemi's.
Why does anyone think Mazda is being held back by Ford.......is Mazda not the strongest they've ever been? People that think the Mustang prevents Mazda from offering a 3-rotor or 4-rotor is an idiot. The only thing preventing a 3-rotor or 4-rotor is the fact that it is horribly inefficient. Why spend $60K on a Mazda with 400 hp that gets 8 mpg when you can spend $60K on a Vette and 400hp and 25 mpg? Mazda is not stupid people......the rotary is not the greatest engine design of all time.
The Focus ST is no where near as fast as a Mustang.....that is not why it's not offered here in the US. It's because Americans will not pay over $30K for a Focus like they do in Europe. Do you think Ford likes spending extra $$$ to develop 2 versions of a car for two markets (North America and rest of the world)? Of course not.......but fat, lazy, bigger is better Americans don't give them a choice.
Last edited by bascho; 05-20-2006 at 08:50 AM.
05-23-2006, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by MikeW
The focus ST may not be as fast as a mustang, but a 3.0 V6 accord with 6 speed manual is.
ford mustang gt =
60 mph: 5.2
accord 3.0 6speed =
Zero to 60 mph: 5.9 se
05-23-2006, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by bascho
Why do people believe car rags with regards to future internal automotive divisions decisions? Did either of these articles quote a Ford executive about SVT being killed off? Nope......why, because it's not true.
If Ford has to use so many incentives to sell cars......why are they offering the lowest incentives compared to GM and Chrysler? Chrysler is actually offering the largest incentives......you know, that company with all the Hemi's.
Why does anyone think Mazda is being held back by Ford.......is Mazda not the strongest they've ever been? People that think the Mustang prevents Mazda from offering a 3-rotor or 4-rotor is an idiot. The only thing preventing a 3-rotor or 4-rotor is the fact that it is horribly inefficient. Why spend $60K on a Mazda with 400 hp that gets 8 mpg when you can spend $60K on a Vette and 400hp and 25 mpg? Mazda is not stupid people......the rotary is not the greatest engine design of all time.
The Focus ST is no where near as fast as a Mustang.....that is not why it's not offered here in the US. It's because Americans will not pay over $30K for a Focus like they do in Europe. Do you think Ford likes spending extra $$$ to develop 2 versions of a car for two markets (North America and rest of the world)? Of course not.......but fat, lazy, bigger is better Americans don't give them a choice.
If Ford has to use so many incentives to sell cars......why are they offering the lowest incentives compared to GM and Chrysler? Chrysler is actually offering the largest incentives......you know, that company with all the Hemi's.
Why does anyone think Mazda is being held back by Ford.......is Mazda not the strongest they've ever been? People that think the Mustang prevents Mazda from offering a 3-rotor or 4-rotor is an idiot. The only thing preventing a 3-rotor or 4-rotor is the fact that it is horribly inefficient. Why spend $60K on a Mazda with 400 hp that gets 8 mpg when you can spend $60K on a Vette and 400hp and 25 mpg? Mazda is not stupid people......the rotary is not the greatest engine design of all time.
The Focus ST is no where near as fast as a Mustang.....that is not why it's not offered here in the US. It's because Americans will not pay over $30K for a Focus like they do in Europe. Do you think Ford likes spending extra $$$ to develop 2 versions of a car for two markets (North America and rest of the world)? Of course not.......but fat, lazy, bigger is better Americans don't give them a choice.
Are you daft? SVT practically ended in ******* 2004! http://media.ford.com/newsroom/featu...?release=20299
SVT IS OVER - I dont see how you could possibly state otherwise.
I highly doubt mazda will ever put out a 400hp rotary powered car so dont you worry your pretty little head.
The focus ST not being as fast as the mustang has nothing to do with it not being offered here. If anything that would be a reason to bring it over. Ford hates it when their own cars are competing with each other (not that i would compare a rwd v8 solid-axle pig to an turbocharged awd 2900lb hatch back... but its obviously ok with you so...) In fact I specifically remember that while the gt was discontinued for several different reasons (new federal bumper height mandates, supposed limited production run, "it served its purpose") it opened the door for ford to announce that the 07 shelby mustang would have 500hp instead of the aforementioned 450-475 for fear of incredibly stupid people comparing the two cars on paper.
haha sorry for the bitching man im just shootin the ****, your turn to wail on me
05-23-2006, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by dillsrotary
ford mustang gt =
60 mph: 5.2
accord 3.0 6speed =
Zero to 60 mph: 5.9 se
RX8 0-60 = 5.9sec
edit: oh and were all of you talking about the focus st concept or the one in production?
Last edited by Xantium; 05-23-2006 at 06:19 PM.
05-23-2006, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Xantium
Are you daft? SVT practically ended in ******* 2004! http://media.ford.com/newsroom/featu...?release=20299
SVT IS OVER - I dont see how you could possibly state otherwise.
I highly doubt mazda will ever put out a 400hp rotary powered car so dont you worry your pretty little head.
The focus ST not being as fast as the mustang has nothing to do with it not being offered here. If anything that would be a reason to bring it over. Ford hates it when their own cars are competing with each other (not that i would compare a rwd v8 solid-axle pig to an turbocharged awd 2900lb hatch back... but its obviously ok with you so...) In fact I specifically remember that while the gt was discontinued for several different reasons (new federal bumper height mandates, supposed limited production run, "it served its purpose") it opened the door for ford to announce that the 07 shelby mustang would have 500hp instead of the aforementioned 450-475 for fear of incredibly stupid people comparing the two cars on paper.
haha sorry for the bitching man im just shootin the ****, your turn to wail on me
SVT IS OVER - I dont see how you could possibly state otherwise.
I highly doubt mazda will ever put out a 400hp rotary powered car so dont you worry your pretty little head.
The focus ST not being as fast as the mustang has nothing to do with it not being offered here. If anything that would be a reason to bring it over. Ford hates it when their own cars are competing with each other (not that i would compare a rwd v8 solid-axle pig to an turbocharged awd 2900lb hatch back... but its obviously ok with you so...) In fact I specifically remember that while the gt was discontinued for several different reasons (new federal bumper height mandates, supposed limited production run, "it served its purpose") it opened the door for ford to announce that the 07 shelby mustang would have 500hp instead of the aforementioned 450-475 for fear of incredibly stupid people comparing the two cars on paper.
haha sorry for the bitching man im just shootin the ****, your turn to wail on me
The GT500 probably got 500hp because it was needed to make it's performance numbers. If it didn't come with that kind of hp... let's just say other than looks, you're better off buying a GT, get the Saleen S/C or Kenne Bell S/C, full exhaust, Saleen (or other) suspension kit, a set of lightweight 19" rims and you'll have GT500 performance at quite a bit less money... and yes even warranty too (with Saleen parts).
05-24-2006, 06:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Japan8
SVT dead? Uh, who built the '07 GT500? I'll give you a hint... it sure wasn't ancient old Carroll Shelby (he was consulted and test drove cars, but that's about it).
More evidence is that the GT500 will be offered at every Ford dealership. Previous SVT vehicles were only offered at SVT dealerships. So you will now have the same dopes that sell you the Fusion selling you the GT500. These salesmen "won't know boost pressure from tire pressure."
The once free-standing Special Vehicle Team has been folded into Ford's general product development group. All the work gone into building up SVT has been destroyed.
Originally Posted by Japan8
Why would Ford get rid of a money maker? Especially when OEM tuner-edition cars are spreading throughout all the automakers?
Originally Posted by Japan8
The GT500 probably got 500hp because it was needed to make it's performance numbers. If it didn't come with that kind of hp... let's just say other than looks, you're better off buying a GT, get the Saleen S/C or Kenne Bell S/C, full exhaust, Saleen (or other) suspension kit, a set of lightweight 19" rims and you'll have GT500 performance at quite a bit less money... and yes even warranty too (with Saleen parts).
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