Japan8

I think you missed what I was trying to say. Ford doesn't have to be a MB... but one of their other nameplates SHOULD be... Jaguar in my opinion. I suppose Lincoln COULD be a more baby boomer targeted car, but that seems dumb considering where Caddie is now and the fact that Ford needs to target their future as baby boomers are on their way out now. So if Lincoln is going for Caddie... which is going for BMW (meaning that Lincolns are designed to compete with BMW)... I'm not sure what to do with Volvo. Maybe a Subaru competitor? (this may be something.. they are unusual cars like Subaru...) Either way... the S40 is a POS. I agree completely about Volvo's design... their looks have come a long way since Ford took over, but value... an S40 with 218hp loaded for $40k?! Who is stupid enough to buy it? Only a Ford or Volvo loyalist. Even the IS250 is a better deal that that!

I have little doubt that Ford is working to flex thier 100 years of experience. I just wonder if it is enough... or more like being used effectively. I'd tell people that Ford stocks are worth buying as a long term investment. They are cheap and dropping, but Ford is doing well in other markets and has plenty of cash. If they really are getting their head out of their ***, then in 2008-2010-ish they'll be looking much better. Too bad I can't say the same about GM... with all of their own liabilities, plus that from Delphi... things are looking REALLY grim there.

Japan8

BTW... i agree completely with bascho on Chrysler. Never owned one myself, but have known several who have. POS is only the tip of the iceberg for those cars. If any of the Ford haters think that Ford is bad, go pickup a Chrysler and tell me what you think after 100k mi.

bascho

I don't disagree that Jaguar needs to focus on high-end luxury and give up on entry level versions......that may help them compete with MB......but I think they already do compete with MB. Between Jag and Aston Martin, Ford can compete with the offerings of MB at most price levels. Jag and Aston are British luxury where MB and BWM are German luxury......it's all a matter of taste. I agree with you about the S40's price being extremely high when loaded with all available options......but that is because Volvo has a strong following of yuppies right now. Those affluent yuppies will gladly pay extra to have a car that the less fortunate cannot afford. Of all Ford's brands, I think Volvo is the one that really knows their market and customer. They have a strong sense of brand identity IMO. Volvo doesn't need to change to compete with others.....they are perceived as the safest vehicles on the road......that is their niche.

Caddie had a great brand resurrection in the last few years.....and Lincoln needs to do the same.....and they will. Like I said earlier, I can't discuss future products at this time......but Lincoln will be back on top of American Luxury.

rx8wannahave

Well, with all due respect to our buddy Bascho (and I honestly hope the best for Ford and GM) I think GM is ahead of the game on them in terms of quality, style and the engines they provide. Bascho works for Ford and is loyal to them...as he should be, but I don't work for neither but look at it as a customer.

Honestly...(and Bascho knows I'm not a Ford hater) I like GM's lineup of cars better than Ford's at this time. Go check out the thread I started about Saturn, I mean they are building some nice looking (inside and out) and apparent good quality products with the up and comming Aura and their new SUV.

While GM has it's hare of issues and things it will have to fix ASAP, I think they are actually headed in the right direction a bit sooner than Ford.

Now, like we all say, if Ford would simply allow some of their Euro flavor to hit our shores then it would be a better battle with GM...let alone everyone else.

Time will tell, but with cars like the G6, Solstice, Sky, Suburban/Taho/etc SUV, Aura, Outlook (Saturn's SUV, I forget the name), C6, Z06, Lacross and the other Buick, and yes even the Impala (which will soon be RWD as it should be), I think GM is ahead of Ford right now.

I've seen and sat in these cars, and driven some and I must say GM is doing the best job it's done in decades. Honestly, their interior's are looking and feeling more like Audi and less like Avis rent a car stuff. No...it's not Audi like yet, but it's pretty close in my opinion.

Again...with all that said, I hope the best for Ford and Chevy because I'd like to spend my money on a US brand...but last time I checked (when I got my 8) they let me down big time.

rx8wannahave

^then again...getting a Mazda feeds Ford, so I guess I do have a USish product.

lol

bascho

Can't disagree with you on this buddy. Even though I work for Ford, I am still an auto enthusiest......meaning I love everything automotive. I definitely think that GM has a strong line-up and that the BS with Delphi could only hurt the progress they've made over the last few years. GM has some fresh products with great powertrains and their quality is really good......not far from Honda IMO. Ford has as much to learn from GM as they do from Toyota. GM's problems are the same as all the domestics......public perception. I am not saying they didn't deserve their reputation.......too many years of neglect IMO. However, enough is enough.....the public has to open their minds to the changes the domestics have made. Too many people dismiss the domestic automakers products as inferior without even driving them.

Wake up people!!! The domestic automakers are not careless, hopeless entities.....they are people like you. No one wants to lose their job because they failed and their company went under. The folks that work in the auto industry don't live in a vacuum.......they understand what you want better then you know yourself. No company can operate today in the way they did in the 80's......information has changed that. The domestics have planned to push away from dependence on SUV's for years because of fuel prices......it's just that the prices escalated waaay faster then they had anticipated and their newer fuel efficient products were not ready.......but they are now and over the next 2 years you'll see what I mean. Just look at last years offerings......how many brand new vehicles did the domestic automakers bring to the market collectively? How many more are coming this year? These products were not just developed last year.....they have been in development for 2-3 years.

rx8wannahave

Yeah...you know, the haters....Ford & GM = trash without even giving it a 2nd thought, some people act like scorned women let me tell you...lol.

But, Ford and GM only have themselves to blame while I think it's time we forgive them and try their products.

Ford is coming out with their new SUV based on the CX-7's same skeleton and let me tell you I really like that SUV. I think Ford will have a hit on their hands with it and while they might be behind a bit...they will fix things soon, I hope.

Cars I look forward to is the up and coming Camaro, Solstice GXP and it’s Saturn brother, and RWD Impala…along with the already mentioned Ford SUV and all our desired stronger RX8.

2 days ago I filled up my 8 and it cost me $40…I hope things change but I doubt it will and I just hope I don’t have to be forced out of my 8 one day because of gas. Right now it’s painful only because of what we all were use to but if it keeps going up things will have to change.

93RedX7

Just a quick correction. Although the Ford Edge and CX-7 look similar. They are not based on the same architecture. Ironically, the CX-9 IS a stretched version of the Edge.

bascho

^^ The best part of the Edge and MKX is the Panoramic glass roof. You will not believe you are in a Ford product when you see this thing in real life......it is awesome. I would hate to have to replace it....big $$$. Also the Edge and MKX have adaptive headlamps standard.....adaptive headlamps are those that turn based on inputs from the steering system. I really like the Edge and MKX and think that they are going to be strong competitors in their market segments.

rx8wannahave

^me too, nice job Ford!

visitor

ford five hundred is pimp. it's got mass leg room, AC, stereo, good gas mileage, decent power, and a huge *** trunk. what's not to like in a chillin' sedan? why's every car gotta be stylin' and head turning? hell, how many of you rx8 owners have actually tracked your rx8 at a race track? at least i know of one ford 500 that owned laguna seca for a lap. too bad it was driven by a douche.

sti_eric

It's not 1976. Touting AC and stereo as features is like touting that the car has 4 wheels. Good gas mileage and decent power??? Does not even come close to the V6 Camry - 268hp and 31/22 mpg (vs 203hp and 29/21 mpg for the 500). Heck, the new Hyundai Azera has 263hp, gets 28/19, is bigger, and has a 10 year warranty. As soon as the 500 came out, it was already near the bottom in its class.

They don't. But who wants to drive a rental car? Oh, ford owners.

snizzle

So what's the deal with the Ford 500 vs the Ford Fusion? I don't understand why they have two very similiar sedans in production.

bascho

I find that hard to believe.....do you have some proof?

bascho

It's about age of target customer. Ford caters the Five Hundred to the over 40 crowd and the Fusion to the under 40 crowd. It's very hard to have one vehicle cater to both market segments because the two generations are very different in what they want out of a vehicle.

bascho

How much is the extra is the AWD option on the Camry and Azera?.......oh that's right, they don't have that option. By way even though the Camry and Azera have more horsepower.......that has only been a complaint by the younger generations. Most folks over 40 feel the power is just fine.....and the fuel economy is competitive. I don't expect someone with an STi to understand a vehicle like the Five Hundred because they are exact opposites.

sti_eric

Azera on the left, 500 on the right
Front legroom 1,110mm (43.7") 1,049mm (41.3")
Rear legroom 970mm (38.2") 1,049mm (41.3")
Front headroom 1,021mm (40.2") 1,001mm (39.4")
Rear headroom 970mm (38.2") 983mm (38.7")
Front hiproom 1,410mm (55.5") 1,364mm (53.7")
Rear hiproom 1,400mm (55.1") 1,364mm (53.7")
Front shoulder room 1,471mm (57.9") 1,468mm (57.8")
Rear shoulder room 1,450mm (57.1") 1,463mm (57.6")

Azera has more room upfront, 500 has more room in back.

sti_eric

Do you both to read the thread, or do you just read things how you want to read them? I was responding to the poster ahead of me who was quoting that the 500 gets good gas mileage and has decent power. The Camry gets better mileage and has more power.

If you wanted to buy a good AWD car, why in the world would you buy a Ford???

bascho

What full-size AWD vehicle can you buy for less than $30K other then the Five Hundred. Also, the AWD system used is identical to that of the Volvo vehicles.....it is a very good drivetrain.

bascho

Why didn't you include trunk space? That is an important factor to potential customers of full-sized sedans......and an important factor in total volume of the vehicle.

Renesis_8

There is a reason why the Ford 500 is ending production!, you cant really defend this car, the facts are all over the 1st post of the thread!
________
WildCATblond cam

sti_eric

#1 because the guy I was responding to was talking about front legroom and
#2 the site I was looking at (cars.com) didn't have trunk space listed

sti_eric

75% of the Five Hundreds that Ford will build will be FWD, not AWD. It makes more sense to look at the FWD aspects of the car, not AWD.

As for your question, the Chrysler 300 offers a very nice (much nicer than the Ford) full size AWD vehicle for $30,500.

bascho

Fair enough

bascho

Ending production??? WTF are you talking about? No one said Ford was ending production of the Five Hundred.