bascho

[QUOTE=rodrigo67]You are confusing the issue. This is not a Ford rule as a company....it's a rule at one assy plant in Michigan. It's not every parking lot.....it's the voucher only lot next to the building. All that is happening is a special requirement of owning a Ford-Family product in order to qualify for the voucher. The auto industry is highly competitive and giving special recognition to those employees that support their company buy buying the products that keep it alive is not a bad thing.

I have a feeling that the people that have reacted negatively to this issue are people that do not work for a company that makes anything. When you work for a company that actually produces something, selling the products that you produce is how you keep jobs. Yes, Ford, GM and DCX all had boring cars that were of low quality.....4 YEARS AGO. All three have products in JD Powers Top 10 Total Quality lists......Nissan, Mitsubishi & Subaru never have any listed in Top 10. But guess what.....public perception is that the BIG 3 crank out low quality, boring crap. The public perception is a very hard thing to crack. People always say to the Big 3, hey why don't you drive a Toyota and learn something......guess what, they have been driving the competition's cars for 2 decades or more. And by the way, they have learned a lot. The Big 3 turn out some very high quality, highly styled cars....but the perception has not changed. How many Big 3 haters have driven a Big 3 product in the last 2 years? Before my RX8, I had a new Ford every two years.....pick-up trucks, SUV's and cars.....never had a single issue. Never broken down, never had a rattle, never had a squeek.

bascho

Who do you work for?

rodrigo67

I'm sorry but a $169,000 astin may be snooty in many cirsles but it in no way compares to a porsche. Save yourselve $60 grand and get a better car.

In the lux department Astin and jags are way over priced for what you get and I would buy a bmw/merc/acura/lexus/audi/caddy over any volvo linc any day.

In lux sports, how about a chrysler 300 with a hemi. Fords got no comparison. Not to mention the sports cars offered in the group above. The TL, RL, IS, 330...just no ford comparison.

Ok, I may go along with the miata, but ford only owns 30% of Mazda and doesn't even touch most of Mazda's line up. Ironically the mazda 6 is the only one with ford input and it's the only mazda rated as not recommended by Consumer Digest.

Mustang as a great handling sports car. Don't think so. The mustang is a great muscle car and if I wanted a muscle car it would be on the list, but again, there are other alternatives. Again the rx8 and miata, I give you, but I highly doubt that this was the intention. Could you imagine driving by a ford plant and nothing but mazda's parked outside. Not the marketing they were thinking.

Sorry but mitsu and subby own this segment right now. There is not a better awd car available without spending tons more.

This is not to bash ford, which honestly I don't like, but this old style thinking that the company has decided that they make exactly what you need and you have to choose from what they decide to offer, instead of making the cars people want. Ask yourself, why does toyota, honda, and even now hyundai sell so many cars. Most are boring, underpowered, unimaginative, and not cheap. People will pay for something if they think the value is worth the costs. Sure ford offers some cars in some segments of the market, but I and many others have decided that for the price of whats offered, and sometimes what's not offered....there are better choices.

bascho

rodrigo67, what do you do for a living?

globi

rodrigo, you need to realize that this is only directed at people that work for Ford.

I would hope that someone that does not like Ford would not work for Ford. Again no-one is forced to work for Ford.
Why work for a company you don't like and be miserable?

therm8

Your personal bias is getting the way of the facts.

Watched any Mustang racing lately? Driven one? They do handle very well.

Driven a late model Volvo lately? I'd drive one over any Japanese psuedo luxury make any day. I'd drive one over any competing Audi. I'd drive one over any Mercedes. I'd drive one over any competeing BMW but the M3. Maybe that's just me. If it came down to Caddy's, I'd probably take the Caddy, but then I like the new ones.

Ford Family is just that. It's family of cars. That includes Mazda.

How did giving a giant, poor to average handling sedan a Hemi make it luxury sport?

Ford has a long way to go. The same goes for GM. The behemoths are slow to change, but they've begun. They're still #1 and 2 in the world. It takes alot to implement progress in such a giant corporation, but they'll get there.

Ford's just promoting their own bottom line, and a little esprit de corps. And they have that right. You asked for options, I gave them to you. If those choices don't suit the employees, then they can park across the street.

portero23

I can see where you're coming from with the entire "Dress Code" or investing in your company idea, but this is not "investing in your company." The rule implemented by that facory's foreman is a rule aimed at identifying those in the workforce who they can point to and say "joe over there, he drives a Chevy. He's why you're getting laid off."

Let's also look at dress codes...

Dress codes:
Neiman Marcus - Sure, you may have to wear a suit, but you can buy any suit you want, from anywhere you want
Macy's - Same deal, no requirements on wearing the Alfani line
WalMart - No requirements to buy WalMart brand, but employees probably shop there anyway
Banana Republic - no requirements on wearing BR crap.

However, oftentimes employees end up shopping at the brand they work for. Why? Probably for one of two reasons:
A) They chose to work there because they like the product and therefore buy the product
B) They get employee discounts on these products that they like or need

In Dearborn, MI, you don't choose to work somewhere because you like the product. You get your *** a job at the factory because they are the only ones with a factory in your town, are the only ones who have a couple job openings for skilled and unskilled labor, and the ones who (used to) have a decent pension plan so you can at least grow old without starving.

In fact, if you're getting an employee discount, the well known M-plan, and you're still buying a competitor's car, that's gotta be saying something pretty embarassing for Ford...

What I wish would happen for this factory is that the exclusive parking lot will end up at 20% capacity, and the one across the street to be overflowing with vehicles.

Maybe that will finally get Ford to do something about their line-up.

If I had any say in the matter, I would start with getting rid of that ridiculous blue oval. It looks like they're still slapping on excess badges from the 1960s... It looks ridiculously out of place on such cars as the Ford GT. Sure there's history behind the oval, but when a company needs to change the public's perception, changing the brand logo will instantly shift consumers' thinking. It doesn't have to be a drastic change to a stylized "F" but rather an update that brings the style up-to-date. In today's world of typing, computers and the internet, the script writing of the Ford oval screams "out-of-date." However, with the entire retro look coming back, maybe they won't have to...

-P23

Correction: Excess badges from the 70s with an oval and script lettering dating back to 1911...

bascho

It's not like that at all. No one is being fired for driving a competitors vehicle. And for a little background info on the Plant.....it's the Rouge plant (the one that gets all the press for being the most advanced assembly plant on the planet). This is the plant that you visit if you take the Rouge Factory Tour at Greenfield Village. This is a high visability plant for Ford and the street that divides the parking lots is the one the Tour buses travel....along with press and industry analysts and environmentalists. Having a high visability parking lot, next to your most famous factory in the heart of Motown filled with Ford-family vehicle is a huge statement. Remember this lot is only holds 15% of the employees cars. And I can say without a doubt that it will not be hard to fill that lot with Ford oval vehicles let alone Ford-family vehicles. If you are not from Michigan or have never been to Michigan then you might not understand this.....but 80% of the cars on the road here are Big 3 product. It's not like Cali where Toyota and Honda are King. Yes, there are plenty of Toyotas and Hondas and everything else you can name....but Michigan is a Big 3 state. This rule is not going to be a problem with most employees....in fact, the employees affected are UAW.....what products do you think they buy?


You can't compare retailers of other people's products to a company that makes products. I worked in retail a long time ago, and I have friends that work retail now. The two are not the same.....their is no product loyalty in retail. You don't make anything, so buying a product sold at that store only supports that store.

You forgot reason C) They like having a job and support the company that supports their family.


Never happen. And that is a strange thing to wish for.


[That's a great idea......get rid of arguably the most recognized brand and symbol in the world

portero23

Of course I know Michigan is such a huuuuge Big 3 state. Why do you think you're getting so defensive on this company? I've got a friend who works for Bosch, and yea, he's proud to drive home the prototype Cadillac on occasion. He's proud of his job, loves his company, supports it any way that he can. Here you've got Ford employees who would rather drive competitor cars. See the problem? Who in their right mind wouldn't want to support their company? But for some reason, the drive to buy a better car overwhelms the thought of buying a Ford.

Also, if visibility were truly the problem, they would have implemented this rule from the very beginning. Rather, it's a reactionary move to a souring market share. I'll grant you that part of it could be for visibility purposes as a reactionary move, but you've got to admit that there's definitely a fair amount of "screw em, they can park across the street" sentiment from the foreman as well.


Of course there's product loyalty in retail. That's what a brand logo is for - recognition, perception of quality, and loyalty. Why do you think they have huge hoodies with the words GAP and POLO across the front?

It's hard to be proud of poor worksmanship, and that's coming from personal experience. And they're really supporting employees' families with pension underfunding of $7.3B.

I was being facetious - but it would be funny, and it would get the point across.

See what I wrote. I did not say "get rid of" but rather "update". For example, look at what Intel has done with their logo. Also, see my point above on the reason for having a logo/brand in the first place. When that logo earns the reputation for low-quality and boring cars, there's a pretty good reason to shift it.

The fact that it's one of the most visible logos in the world actually helps. If they shift their logo just a bit, replace it with something a little faster, a little sleeker, but still maintaining that link to their heritage, and then slap it onto a whole new line-up of exciting and quality vehicles, it will scream to the world "Ford is back, and better than ever. Forgive us for the Fiesta and the Taurus. We're getting off our asses and now our line-up will knock you off your feet. Buy me.

-P23

SHOWOFF

I work at a Ford dealership and now the Ford Employees are starting to boycott any vehicle that Ford sells that is not produced in the US. So for instance the Fusion, the car that Ford Mo. Co. says is the "the most important car we've launched since the Taurus" is a car that they absolutely refuse to buy because it's built in Mexico.

I understand some of this, but they need to understand that if they don't support the company, they will lose EVEN MORE jobs.

I don't drive Ford products, but I have sold them sucessfully for over 10 years now at the same dealership. They offer NOTHING in the way of cars that I would ever buy. The cars are boring and bland and they are built with little to no creativity in mind. The ONLY car they've built so far that I would consider driving is the Fusion, but even that would be a stretch. But come on, telling people they can't drive their car to work and park there because it's not a Ford is ******* assinine. What if I didn't work for Ford and owned a Honda and got hired there. Does this mean that now I have to buy a Ford so I can park at work. **** that.

These narrow minded short sighted ideas are why they are FIRING 30,000 of you.

Digital_Damage

You sir are a moron if you belive this is a good idea. If I was an employee I would be calling my lawyer.

Digital_Damage

That is fine, just as long as ford supplies eveyone of it's employees with a new car....

sharward

By having "a new Ford every two years," does this mean you were selling/trading in Fords when they reached the age of 2? Or did you have numerous near-new Fords? The reason I ask is that I think a more true evaluation of the products would require one to to keep them for several years.

My take on the subject is that I think the plant has chosen the wrong criteria for the nearby lot parking privilege. Instead of rewarding employees who drive their products, they should reward employees who consistently show a dedication to quality. Yes, it's subjective... But that's the message they need to send to their troops.

Unfortunately, I imagine that they would have a difficult (if not impossible) time implementing such a program with the union. I expect the union would object on the basis that the subjective nature of such a program would make it impossible to guarantee fairness of opportunity for everyone to be recognized and to earn the benefit.

Also, for what it's worth, this vehicular discrimination in parking lots is nothing new... The UAW has been doing it for years:


Sign posted in 1999 at UAW Local 659's parking lot in Flint, Michigan (Source)

sharward

Regarding the idea of changing the Ford logo... I have to agree that I think it may be time for that.

Yes, there is a cost... The oval and scripted font is recognizable and has a long history.

However, they're in a "change or die" mode, and it makes sense that they change the logo as a statement that they're evolving as a new company... (At least they'd better be evolving!)

I have even thought about an idea of their launching a new nameplate altogether. Just look at what Toyota accomplished with Lexus some fifteen years ago and Scion just a couple years back.

Of course they'd have to do a better job of it than GM did with the Geo nameplate, which eventually just got absorbed into the Chevrolet line.

The point is... Ford is obviously suffering from a negative image, whether true or just perceived. Redressing themselves with a fresh logo, as an integral component in a positive public relations campaign, would go a long way towards giving people an opportunity to give them another chance at their business.

They would sure make a big splash with a new warranty program that kick all of its competition and prove that they're serious about quality. Imagine a new logo with a marketing blitz boasting a 10-year / 100K mile, bumper-to-bumper warranty with no deductible, free of charge, with the purchase of any Ford vehicle. That could give them the edge they need and would (hopefully) allow them to finally wean off their factory-to-dealer incentive addictions.

BunnyGirl

When possible I try to buy things made by Philips because they own the company I work for, thereby helping to support my livelihood (primary job in medical field). It may or may not be the absolute best product there is, but it is pretty good for most stuff. Besides, on high end stuff I get a pretty huge discount, up to 80% on their 40-plus inch ambient light flat panel TVs. At that price it's impossible to find a similar quality product at the same price. Why wouldn't I buy from my parent company???

I think it is the same with buying a car. With what the average cars are that I see, Ford and/or Ford family vehicles fit nicely into the average vehicle range. You may prefer something a little different but unless you are looking at more of a speciality kind of vehicle or something high-end and exotic, why wouldn't you make every effort to support your company and thereby helping to support yourself, especially with a wide vehicle brand selection in the Ford family?

Hornet

I'm with the camp that says updat the logo...maybe they could do something like reversing the colors! What I mean by that is where there is blue in the logo put silver and where there is silver put blue!

As for the pride in what you make issue, like mentioned before not everybody that works in these plants work there by choice. Okay, there is a choice end up out on the street with nothing or get a job with the biggest thing going in your area! In this world (even the almighty U.S.) there are a lot of people who work in a particular field out of necessity. The key is keep the food on the table and the roof over your head and that can be done with Ford or with any other company that you luck up and find a job with. I'm pretty sure that the foreign car companies that have plants in the U.S. are not importing the people working the assembly lines. These are Americans making ends meet and it just so happened that a foreign car company popped up instead of one of "The Big 3".

I hope Ford and GM figure things out and get it right for the sake of those who have jobs with these companies (and not at the cost of alienating those who prefer another make)!

Japan8

I'll make it simple. No one care if you guys don't like it. It IS right and it IS standard practice across almost all industries. There are no Pepsi, Asahi, Itoen or other competitor's product available at Coke. You walk into their plants and there are vending machines everywhere set to "free"... and they only serve Coke products (which includes Minute Maid and other brand names used in Canada, Europe, etc.). Microsoft ain't using RedHat on their employee's desktops. Symantec ain't running McAfee on their network.

Hornet

The difference with that example and the Ford example is this! Does anybody get treated differently if they bring a Pepsi packed with their lunch? Not likely! Granted with free drinks available people probably don't pack drinks with their lunch but this is just an example! While I don't think it's a big deal it is different than Pepsi vs Coke, Symantec vs McAfee, or Microsoft vs RedHat!

jstkilntim

Easy rule to implement when you probably get your Ford for free.

bascho

[QUOTE=portero23]Of course I know Michigan is such a huuuuge Big 3 state. Why do you think you're getting so defensive on this company? I've got a friend who works for Bosch, and yea, he's proud to drive home the prototype Cadillac on occasion. He's proud of his job, loves his company, supports it any way that he can. Here you've got Ford employees who would rather drive competitor cars. See the problem? Who in their right mind wouldn't want to support their company? But for some reason, the drive to buy a better car overwhelms the thought of buying a Ford.

Also, if visibility were truly the problem, they would have implemented this rule from the very beginning. Rather, it's a reactionary move to a souring market share. I'll grant you that part of it could be for visibility purposes as a reactionary move, but you've got to admit that there's definitely a fair amount of "screw em, they can park across the street" sentiment from the foreman as well.



Yes, there is brand loyalty in retail when the only products sold at that store are the store brands. Gap and Old Navy are very much like the auto industry.....they make a product and sell it through their own store network. I was referring to your examples of Walmart and Macy's.....which sell products from other companies. You can buy Lucky jeans at a lot of retailers....so why stay loyal to Macy's? Polo is the same thing, you can buy Polo just about anywhere....so where is the loyalty to the retailer? Yes, brands have loyalty, retailers do not. The only reason I used retailers as an example is that anyone working in retail does not understand what is like to work for a company that MAKES products.


I am not going to get into this issue too deep, because it would take to long to explain. The Big 3 are in a unique situation that no other automobile company can relate to. Ford and GM have been around close to 100 years....over that time period they've accrued a combined 1.5 million retired employees with health coverage and pensions. Ford and GM were founded in a country with privatized medicine. Toyota, Nissan, Honda, BMW, etc have never had this burden. Is the pension underfunded....perhaps on paper. But Ford has $25 Billion in cash right now.....thats right $25 billion in CASH. I can promise you that no one recieving a pension has missed a check....no matter what the press says about underfunded pension accounts.




There is no need to change the trademark at all. Ford is not dying....far from it. they just announced a $2 billion profit for 2005. The reason for the restructure is the changed climate of the US. In the rest of the world, Ford is flourishing, sales are up 46% in India for 2005. 30,000 is a big # to most people....but Ford has 134,000 people working in the US alone and 348,000 world-wide. 30,000 being cut is not because the company is dying.....it's because it was stupid to have that many people doing redundant work. My dept lost 10 people last week......every single one of them should have been fired years ago. Good people are not being cut from the company......bad ones are. Anyone that is worth keeping is being reassigned to other posts in the company.

bascho

UAW employees no doubt. All the salaried employees are picking up the Fusion, Milan and Zephyr in record #'s. I have no sympathy for the UAW....the once stood for fairness and now they stand for greed. I really hope the UAW will cease to exist in the next 2 decades.....I would even contribute $$$ to see this happen.


This is not a Ford mandate....how many times do I have to ******* say that. The people affected by this rule at the Dearborn Truck Plant are UAW workers and 99% already drive a Ford-family product. The press has made this into a bigger issue than it is. If I had to bet how many people will lose their voucher over this new rule, I would say less than 20 people. You can own a Honda and work for Ford.....but at the Dearborn Truck Plant you'll have to park across the street in the lot for the other 85% of the employees.......chances are you already do.

rodrigo67

Bascho, I work for a company that supports all the computer/networking needs of car dealerships. I have about 80 car dealers in my area and have at least one of most companies ( no super exoctic stuff). Being a car enthusiest I keep an eye on what companies are putting out, price, options, etc. I also get alot of feedback from owners, parts dept, and service depts ( not as much from the sales guys because....well you know). So when an owner or a parts manger or sales manager tells me don't ever buy one of these or one of those and it's something they sell, I'm sure they know what they're talking about ( and yes, this does happen).

In my area, my ford dealers are still doing well on truck sales ( just not as well as before) but the 500's are barely moving, they have sold a few fusions, and can't keep mustang GT's in stock, but have lots of v6's available.

bascho

Well if you were affected by this rule, than you would be a UAW member who has been used to this rule at all the Local Union Halls throughout the USA. Not to mention your lawyer would be provided to you by the UAW who fully supports this new rule.

rodrigo67

Japan8. I wonder if that includes ford cars built in mexico. Does buying a mexican ford save jobs in the US? When will ford start separating thier parking lots into domestic fords, foreign fords and others?

bascho

Do you work for DCS?

I agree that dealers know the ins and outs of the product they sell and of course they will disuade their friends and acquaintances away from 'problem vehicles'. But if you think this a Ford only problem then you are crazy. Every dealer of every product will be know about all the problems with their particular brand......and every brand has issues. The thing that separates the good from the bad in the public's view is how those problems were handled. Toyotas breakdown....Honda's breakdown.....but it's how quickly they get the customer taken care of that makes the perception of a quality car company. I agree 100% that Ford has dropped the ball in the past with regards to Ford-to-dealer relations. Many dealers hated working with FCSD for a long time.....but that had changed in the last few years. Ford has been proactive about involving the dealer network in designing a process that meets their needs. Go and ask your dealers if they feel the relationship with Ford has improved in the last 2 years.

As far as the Five Hundred's sales are concerned.....they are way beyond the expectations. Ford purposely replaced the Taurus with 2 vehicles because they wanted to split the market. Splitting the market for a midsized Ford meant that they would not have 300,000 customers a year like they had with the Taurus.....it means they anticipated 150,000 Fusion customers and 150,000 Five Hundred customers. Guess what, they had more than expected for both vehicles. Not to mention we learned a lot about what Americans wanted as fas as content. The projected mix for the Five Hundred included only 17% Limited AWD........after a year of sales, the actual mix was 51% Limited AWD. This told Ford that they have a lot of room for adding content to bring the mix in-line with expectations. Ford has a bunch of knock-outs right now....and next fall with the Edge and MKX in the mix, 2006/7 is going to be a good year for Ford NA.