Truss

Nissan has admitted that it has some quality control problems with its interior materials. The new Altima tries to address many of these. I also believe the Z has new interior materials since it was introduced. Lots of early build cars have weird paint/plastic/switches issues. 1993 RX-7s are notorious for their fragile paint and interiors.

Cutting costs is what allowed Nissan to survive. If some cheap interior bits are the necessary evil to make that happen, then so be it!

T.

Skyline Maniac

Actually cost cutting is not what enable Nissan to survive~ Nissan is doing very well because of the combination of excellent products and performance value of their vehicles. It's the sales number and revenue that enables a company to survive.

shelleys_man_06

What do you mean by rape? Are you talking about straight-line performance, braking, handling? Anyways, the new Mustang is going to attract many a buyer. Do I like the direction Ford is heading with the DEW chassis? No. Eli Whitney needs to be kicked in the groin for his best, and worst innovation: INTERCHANGABLE PARTS. I thought the new Mustang was going to be built on an entirely new platform, along with a new engine, and re-vamped suspension. Initiate mental boner . What happens instead? Ford decides to build the car, but around a Lincoln (flame me if I'm wrong) chassis, using the same ol' Mustang formula. Now I'm sad . When will Ford grow a pair and design a Mustang, maybe just a Cobra, that is actually a modern sports car? Not to say that the Mustang is a bad handling car, in fact, despite its archaic chassis and suspension, it can move and shake its tailfeather quite well. I've always dreamed of having the Mustang transcending from its FOX-Body roots, but I don't think I'm going to see that happen, unless I can get a well-deserved internship in Troy . Overall, I still love the Mustang and I hope the new one brings in all of sorts of new enthusiasts .

m477

I think Jeremy Clarkston put it best when he said something like, "you'd expect the car to be nimble and agile, like a Miata with more power... but it just isn't".

Also, calling the Z 'American' isn't all that far-fetched, as it was designed by Americans largely for the American market.

Personally, I think they should have just updated the S-platform and dropped the VQ in to make the new Z -- the 99-02 Silvia was better than the Z in just about every aspect and less expensive.

shelleys_man_06

I don't think Nissan would've profitted if they had kept the Silvia around. It's not a very popular name, even amongst enthusiasts. It's more of a niche car if you ask me. Yes, we all remember the Silvia, when it was the 240SX, the POS versions of the S13 and S14. People remember the Z because of its pedigree. I once wanted Nissan to import the S15 when it was out for those three years, but they would've never sold in the States. There's no demand. Now it's gone. Factory turbocharged cars are being phased out for equally powerful, not to mention reliable, N/A powerplants. The WRX, EVO, Cooper S (it's supercharged, but it's got a compressor strapped to it) are exceptions. The high-dollar turbo cars don't count . I like the way auto companies are going. They're pretty much going back to the basics of engine design. You can definitely squeeze more power out of an engine with the right tuning. In the late 90s, we saw a resurgence of small and powerful N/A engines, thanks to the various types of valve timing, or in the 13B-MSPs case, port and intake design. Look at BMW's E46 M3 engine. 3.2 liters, 333 hp. That's pretty insane, even today. I can't wait until they employ Valvetronic and Double VANOS on that engine :D. Not to say that turbos aren't great. In fact, I would love to have Buchi's invention on my 8. I just don't want it to come out of the factory (think price and insurance ). The turbocharged hp wars are over. Thank goodness. The early to mid 90s was getting nutty. The best band-aid for bad designs was a turbocharger. I guess that was the mindset then. I mean, nobody wants a 2JZ-GE, they want the the GTE model. The N/A was just dead weight IMO. I hope we don't see more turbocharged factory cars, unless they're proven to be efficienct, reliable and environmentally friendly (I hope you can remember the FD3S when you think about that).

m477

I think you're missing the point entirely. The S platform is simply a much better platform for making a sports car than the FM platform. The 240SX didn't sell well because they gave it a crappy engine and a mushy suspension, and tried to market it as "The Afforable Luxury Coupe".

Like I said, if they had updated the S platform and dropped the VQ in and called that the new Z, it would outperform the FM-platform Z in every category for less money. And you're trying to say that would be a BAD thing?

And your comments about turbochargers sound like they would maybe have made sense in 1998, but that's about it. The fact is that turbo technology today is much better than it was 10-15 years ago, and turbo cars are making a HUGE comeback in the market place.

Just look at all the turbo cars that have hit the American market in just the past few years: WRX, Evo, STi, SRT-4, turbo PT, turbo Protege, turbo Miata, 1.8t Volkswagens, Audi RS6. Volvo and Saab continue to have turbos on most of their cars. Mazdaspeed is planning on even more turbo cars for the future: the MS 6, MS 3, and probably even a turbo MS RX-8. So I'd say for from dying out, turbo cars are really thriving.

shelleys_man_06

Sorry about that. I think what I had meant to say was the dying off of twin-sequential turbo cars. I think an S16 might fare well in Japan, maybe even here. I don't know. There isn't much support for it, which is why it's dead. I hate to sound redundant, but that's the way it is. Would it be viable to stick the VQ motor into a smaller, lighter chassis? So, you're saying the VQ doesn't belong in the Z? I'm not worried about the cheaper price. I am more worried about the chassis dynamics, assuming the VQ35DE is heavier than the SR20DET. I think if Nissan came out with a new-generation SR20DET, I would use that. You're thinking, the QR25 is good right? Not compared to the SR motor. The connecting rods on the QR25DE are like toothpicks compared to the SR20's. And, it has some pretty much worthless balance shafts that add significant weight, not to mention make the oil frothy after a hard run. Gross. It's got torque potential though. I don't think Nissan had anywhere to go with it's S Platform. You are right about the modern factory turbo cars. There's a bunch of them, one of my favorite's being the Ford Focus RS. I just hope that twin-sequential turbo cars will never come back.

scorp76

It's no secret that I hate the Z and the G35c both, but I tried several times to lighten up my opinion by driving a few of them. I took a long test drive in two different Z's (track/performance) and a G manual. I went in with an open-mind, but even after driving the shiet out of both, I wasn't impressed.

I couldn't find anything about the Z I liked; visibility was horrible, ride was terrible, shifter was a joke, engine sound was annoying and it didn't FEEL that powerful, and it feels much too heavy. Almost the same story with the G; more practical, but it's just as soulless.

I guess I can see why some people would drool over them, but I'd rather have a car that does everything right AND makes me smile behind the wheel, like an RX-8 or 330ci.

iM2GoOd2bTrU

My thoughts exactly as I read through that final quote :p

Skyline Maniac

Well, at least we know you are completely open minded and unbiased.

shelleys_man_06

I could've sworn I wrote this in an earlier post.

shelleys_man_06

It sounds redundant, but at least people are experiencing the same thing with the Z33 that I did. It's not a bad car, actually. IMO, it's just wasn't what I was looking for. The Z will find many a happy home, as the RX-8 . There's no real need to hate on the car.

policyvote

shelleys--haven't the European marques proven that turbocharged cars can hit all three of those targets (efficient, reliable, clean)? In fact, I would venture to say that improved electronics and tuning have benefitted turbocharged cars as much--if not more so--than naturally aspirated cars. Of specific note is the VW/Audi 1.8T engine, mated with different turbos and tuning to power everything from the VW GTi to the Audi TT. Flexible, versatile, advanced.

In fact, I'm going to go as far as saying that forced induction is making a comeback, especially in domestic cars. Look at the Neon SRT-4, the ION Red Line, the Cobalt SS, all the SAABs, etc. Yes, there's lots of great technology going into N/A engines, but cars are also getting bigger, heavier, more luxurious, etc.--increasing the need for horsepower. Plus, the dramatic revival of driving enthusiasm is pushing all manufacturers to increase power across the board. It's a lot easier to slap FI on to an existing engine than to develop a whole new engine . . . look at the Ecotec. It was developed over years by the Swedes, and introduced in 2000 across GMs lineup. When GM wanted to get a piece of the sport compact market, they destroked, turbocharged, and intercooled the existing Ecotec, and dropped it into a couple appropriate GM models. GM also had a tuner turn the ION into a top-speed car; the resulting supercharger package is already in the ION Red Line, it will also be in the 2005 Cobalt SS. Also in 2005, they're finally launching an Ecotec with a VVT solution--but it's in a subcompact roadster that doesn't need the heft and power of a turbocharged engine. So you see, it's all about making one engine design work to fit multiple needs.

The bottom line is that FI absolutely has its applications; well done it can be just as reliable and economical and clean as medium-sized N/A engine, or as powerful as a huge N/A engine. It's mostly a question of design goals meeting existing parts and platforms. Niether N/A nor FI is inherently superior.

Peace
policy

shelleys_man_06

And this is in response to...Seriously, I have no idea what you're talking about bro' .

NoPistonsHere

The Z has a French Engine....need I say more.

Hanzo

The VQ35DE is developed by Nissan. Nissan has been making the VQ series engine since 1995.

MTLbroker

I like the Z. My sister-in-law has one. Driven it on many occasions. Still prefer my 8, but I can see why people would like the car. My take on it is that it is a little overpriced (considering the parts-bin approach) but to contradict myself, it's cheap compared to some of the more exotic competition.
I like the Mustang GT also, my last car was a 'stang. It too is getting overpriced (best damned Fairmont they ever built). Bought the car for the engine but everything else on the car was a compromise at best.

NoPistonsHere

Ever watch TOP GEAR, they said that the weakest part of the car is the French bit, THE ENGINE

Hanzo

Yes I've seen that and that is the only time I've ever heard that claim. There are no other documented or verbal statement about it being build by the French (Renault). If anything the Renault uses the VQ35DE in their cars.

The VQ was derived from the early Nissan V6 engine (VG35DE) which was used in the 300ZX.

NoPistonsHere

yup, I guess it is just that British Dry Humor. Sorry, I am Kinda anti French. They talked a lot of *Ish over in Kosovo during the war. This one French enlisted talking *hit about America and still shopping in the American PX at Camp Bondsteel.

shelleys_man_06

Leave the VQ engines alone. So what if the French or the Japanese designed it? It's pretty damn good engine; it has a near linear powerband and a torque curve flatter than Hillary Duff. Now, if Nissan would grow a pair and get a VQ30DETT powered Z33...

NoPistonsHere

Well the guy in top gear say's its a fusion car part jap, part Frenchy, part american, and part indian. The engine being French, parts manufactured in Japan, assembled in California, and the whole Idea from an Indian from Lester. Think of the car as a raw Hamburger dipped in a curry aujew sauce. However, the car did get the same Track time as the BMW M3, as did the Rx8, but the Rx8 is $2000-$4000 less then the Z with 4 seats and really not in the same class of the Z, so why are we doing this Comparro. Rx8 smaller engine 1.3L, 350 Z bigger engine 3.5L. Thats like David and Goliath, oh ya David kicked Goliaths *SS with a 1.3L Stone :D :D :D

Just my little Ripple Effect in the Big Pond, hehehehe :p

Feras

iTrader: (1)

hey guys whats the deal with all the hate. I personally love all kinds of sports cars, if i had my way id have not only the 350Z but practically every other JDM sports car from the 90s. The 350Z is a great car, period. So is the RX-8, since when did it have to be one or the other.

mysql101

I agree, the 350Z is a nice car.

on the other hand, I don't see a problem with pointing out it's faults - afterall, if the 350Z was perfect, we'd all own one instead of the RX-8.

scorp76

And just what IS so great about the VQ? I can't see why it keeps making that list that makes Nissan owners oh-so-proud.

I mean, it's nowhere near as smooth, quiet, or refined as Honda's. AND, Honda's V6's make as much power from smaller, more efficient engines. But like that guy from Honda said a few years ago, their ponies "are healthier than Nissan's."