LionZoo

I know we already have a billion new threads on the 370Z, but I feel Dan Neil's prose in this article is just wonderful and this isn't so much 370Z specific as it is probably an indication of the future of all automotive manuals, the ones with a clutch pedal at least.

http://www.latimes.com/classified/au...,3623022.story

SiLVeRE8

iTrader: (8)

this kind of sucks but hey in the long term there would be less broken transmissions.

Detrich

there was also an article on this re: the new CTS-V... namely that the auto is faster and more efficient than any manual rendition of the car could ever be- due to the new "smart" auto transmissions they've developed...

LionZoo

(Cross posted on miata.net, a bit tongue in cheek)

I'll admit, I don't like this, but I'm going to be honest here. I don't like this because it takes away one more thing about driving that allows me to feel superior to the average masses slogging away on their morning commute while trying their hardest to make the time go by a little faster by talking on their cellphones and sipping their lattes in their automated living rooms. Heel and toe is a skill you learn, a skill so often bypassed by most people in America and even the rest of the world that knowing it allowed you to feel like a part of an exclusive club. The club's members were all the world's serious drivers and the membership card was a perfectly smooth 3-2 downshift under braking with the engine wailing at speeds normal drivers would cringe at because it was too loud. I could observe normal drivers in their automatics because they don't know how to just a clutch, or the posers in their manuals with the jerky shifts and think, "Ha! But I know how to drive!" I took the time to learn the skill, working through the hazings of mismatched shifts, to become a member of this exclusive club and now it feels like the club's relaxed its membership requirements and anyone who can operate a manual can join. It's like that time Facebook decided to open itself up to all colleges instead of being Ivy League only.

J8635621

iTrader: (10)

Sounds like you could write a thesis on it. I definitely know what you mean. Anyone can drive an automatic. A lot of people can drive a manual, but how many can drive one well? Being part of an exclusive group does make something much more meaningful. All the other people just cruising through life don't know what they are missing. It just gives so much satisfaction to be able to feel truly connected with the car.

turborx8

iTrader: (1)

These electronic gizmos are great as long as we have buttons to turn them off.

8 Maniac

iTrader: (1)

lol, but at some point, do you sacrifice your fun for better performance?

I cant say if I like it or dislike it... as long as we still have an option, I really wont care. If it becomes stuck one way or the other, then I'll have to form an opinion... but I cant really judge the idea until I drive one anyways. It takes out a lot of driver errors... which is good and bad. Means less accidents or damage to the cars, but also means that there's one less element of individual skill between drivers.

So currently, here's what's left up to the driver with these types of cars:

-driving lines
-braking control
-throttle control

So I wouldn't say that competition is dull yet, but it does kind of feel like some "fun" factors are being removed.

Flashwing

I guess it's "progress" depending on how you look at it. Amazing, here we are basking in the eyes of new technology and we're shunning it. It's days like this at my ripe age of 26 that I already hear myself saying "back in my day we didn't have any fancy rev matching computers. We did it all with our own feet!"

In some respects this is a great piece of technology. I agree that it will lead to transmissions lasting longer and an overall more enjoyable driving experience for people who want to drive a manual. However, is there something to be said about computerization of cars being a bad thing?

One thing I'm glad about with my RX8 is I have no traction control and no DSC. Sure I have ABS, but no electronic nannies to get in the way of my driving. I've seen such nannies get in the way of people learning their limits in vehicles like the Evo where rookie drivers advance quickly only to find themselves over their head and sometimes in the wall.

Maybe that's progress? Natural selection of the car world?

Heel-toe shifting is not only a very difficult skill to learn it also makes you more connected to the vehicle and adds that human element to driving. Remember its supposed to be about the driver and not always the car!

Instead we've got paddle shifting transmissions, launch controls and all kinds of technology designed to take a normal, inexperienced driver and allow them to drive beyond their limits.

Technology and progress are good things but there's still something about rowing gears that makes me smile. I would shed a tear for the day THAT comes to an end.

Socket7

Transmissions are going the way of the dodo in the next 10 years anyways. This is just the next step in the progression.

Farewell Manual transmissions. you will be missed

kvndoom

I don't drive 3-pedals for speed. FFS, who lives their normal life trying to get from 0-60 in 5 seconds? Race cars are for race drivers, yet everyday people treat numbers like a religion. I drive 3-pedals for fun. It brings the maximum enjoyment out of driving for me.

People can quote numbers until they're blue in the face, but in the end it's all just dumbing down for the masses. Someday all we will do is push a button, speak into a microphone where we want to go, and sleep/read newspapers/talk on the phone until a voice tells us that we have reached our destination. And you know what? People will still call it "driving." That's what is really sad about some people's vision of "progress."

Rhawb

Sigh, heel-toe is something I look forward to on my drives. I really think I'd just consider going straight automatic if all I'm going to be able to do is upshift. I don't give a crap (and never have given a crap) about numbers, I drive for the sake of driving. I drive because I love teaching myself all these skills, even if they're not the fastest thing possible - they're plain FUN!

ULLLOSE

iTrader: (1)

Interesting how times change.... There was a time when "real drivers" did not need ABS brakes, yet they are common place - and desired - by many racers. Traction control proved very effective in F1, so much so it was banned. No-lift shifting has been in race cars for years, and now the Cobalt SS has it in street trim. No clutch shifting (dog-ring transmission), removing the need for heel-toe, have been around even longer in racing.

It is all progress.

rotary.enthusiast

^Racers are in favor of anything that will shave time within the rules of competition. But it takes a lot of the pride out of it when so much is done for you... the skill set required to be fast gets narrower, and narrower. Before ABS, braking at the limit of the car's potential was a skill... now you can get away with crushing the pedal and not worrying about it. It's progress in terms of technology, and laps times, and drivability for the masses certainly... but a part of me is sad that something that I can do well that many other people can't is now a non-issue; there is no reason to be proud of a useless skill.

8 Maniac

iTrader: (1)

some people go to the track for fun and like getting better times... and I'm talking about any kind of track... whether it be a drag strip or an actual track with turns... so it's not just numbers on paper that people care about... some people care about their personal numbers from driving. In fact, in this case, it has nothing to do with acceleration such as 0-60 because it's a downshift... The only way it helps in that regard is the fact that it helps you get into a lower gear to actually go faster... I see what you're saying, but not everyone is just a casual driver with a fun car. Some people actually take their cars to push them to the limits.

delhi

If it has a off-button, it's all good. I think I like to take the 370z out for a spin to try this feature out.

nelsoncs

It's sad to see... but progress is one of the best things in our world of cars. Just think about how far everything has come in the last 30 years. Granted, things like flappy-paddle gearboxes sure make things look dismal but take the tesla. Without that car, we would have no benchmark for what electric cars could do. Even though some of the progress sucks, a lot of it opens new doors.

Let's just fuel efficiency standards don't change anytime soon or we're all royally screwed.

YaXMaNGTO

I'm looking forward to test driving the 370z and seeing what the downshift blip does...

I'm very proficient with heel-toe and rev-matching, and my Dad taught me how to do it 20 years ago. Been practicing and working on it ever since. I want to see what this system will do.

Oh, and f' braking with no ABS. Who wants 20+ feet added to their 60-0 mph braking? No me. Theres NO WAY a human being can modulate the braking as efficiently as ABS.

The auto blip downshift is a little more subtle. The advantage you get from it would only show as a few tenths on a road course, and won't show up as a measured statistic in magazines, so not many people will notice. Well, okay, I'm sure the Nissan fanboys will have a field day about it.

SebtownRx8

Driving an automatic is like sitting on the sofa and pushing petals, personally i like sitting in my rocket ship chair and shifting through the gears its more of a rush and you feel like your one with the car, telling it when to shift rather than some effin comp changing gears mid rev to save mpg... BS

Rootski

iTrader: (1)

As long as there is demand for it, someone will build it. Even if it's just a niche thing. You can still get engines with carburetors, after all.

I'll take a third pedal and a **** any day of the week. They're simply more fun.

ULLLOSE

iTrader: (1)

If you never notice the S-drive it has done its job. But knowing you will not have to worry about rev matching in a race is a nice feeling. I have seen many guys toss the race, or blow a diff, because they did not get the rev match on one downshift in the heat of battle.

ULLLOSE

iTrader: (1)

Yeah I am sure Hamilton is really disappointed with himself, knowing he won that F1 Championship without really shifting the car - damn those paddle shifters.

Yet another hack that does not know how to use a clutch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Icn_u_XNm3k

Anyone that thinks they are only one of these drivers aids (TC/ABS/sequential gearbox) away from competing at that level is kidding themselves.

zoom44

yeah total loser that guy is

rotary.enthusiast

No, but the more difficult something is the more pride you can take in being the best at it. The limit has to be somewhere (I'm not saying we're there already), or eventually there will literally be no driver needed.

alfy28

Yah, i know i am loser.

TheBurkeMan

i would say this feature might come in handy more in daily normal driving. like when downshifting to go around a turn normally, it will make it all alot smoother.

but i also agree, knowing how to heel toe and doing it well really gives you a since of pride, and makes you feel better than the rest of the guys out there.