tiga

Went to a Mazda dealer in Clearwater about a month ago to test drive the 8. Told the guy I will buy one when I sell my 04 BMW M3. He asked if I would be interested in a trade and I said not right now cause I can make more money selling it out right. Anyway the salesman called me yesterday and asked If I would consider trading my car in. I told him I am asking 49,900 for the M3, right where all the books say the car should be. He comes back and tells me he thinks he can come close on a trade, so I figured, what the heck let me see what he comes back with. After several hours the guy calls me back and tells me he has great news. He says he has found a buyer, probably a wholesale buyer, willing to pay over 40k. I asked him how much over 40k and he said about 42k. He must be crazy! Kelly blue book and NADA both list the trade in at about 44 to 45. The salesman orginally had said how much the dealership would love to have my car on their lot and how he could get top dollar for my car. Then he goes on to tell me that I would have a 3k tax credit because of the trade in value of my car being more that the cost of the 8. In reality in Florida you pay taxes on the dif. between the price of your trade in and the cost of the car, so in my case that would only be about eight hundred dollars I would have to pay in taxes. And of course the sales guy was trying to tell me I would be saving 3k in taxes. Also at the dealer I noted that a Sirius satellite radio option ad on cost was just over six hundred bucks...Again what are they smoking. The unit only cost three hundred at a Tampa dealer and all you have to do is put the box in, plug in a coulpe of wires since the car is Sirius ready and plug in the antenna.. Not even the labor would bring you up to six hundred bucs. Now again, like in the past, I have been reminded to never trust a dealer. I think I am going to hold out for a buyer regardless of how much I want the eight.

Japan8

Hold out and find another dealer.

I'd be willing to travel at least 400-500 miles for a really good deal. An utter steal... I don't know about cross-country, but anywhere within a 24 hour drive... no question.

Fanman

He not on drugs, he is the typical dealer/rip off artist. I trust dealers as far as I can throw them. They talk like they are your buddy, but then you have an issue & they are no where to be found.

dos

That's normal dealer crap. I've seen that quite a few times. The last time my friend was thinking of getting a 05 STI and selling his 04 S2000 with 10,000 miles. The dealer said they could work out a trade and then proceeded to offered him $21,000.

Elara

In working in the used car industry for the past 5 1/2 years, I've learned that people don't quite understand how dealers work. Let me see if I can explain in a way that makes a little more sense, because it's a pretty complicated process.

You're never going to get Blue Book or NADA retail value on a trade-in- you're going to get an offer that 1) allows the dealer to take care of any and all reconditioning that it might need (thorough wash/wax, heavy duty shampooing, repair of any tears, scratches, small dents, etc.) and 2) allows the dealer to still make a decent profit. If you think about it, it makes sense. Why pay the same amount for a car that you can sell it for? That would be a very stupid move on the dealer's part. The dealer wouldn't make any profit- in fact, the dealer would lose money- the car would sit on the lot, taking up valuable lot space, and they STILL have to advertise it, take it out on test drives, etc. That's just how it works. That's what's going on here, and that's why many people go ahead and sell the car on their own. You can often get closer to retail price that way. HOWEVER, retail prices are what DEALERS sell the cars for. Not nexcessarily what you're going to get from a private party. If you look at the KBB trade-in values, it's very close to what the dealer offered you (I'm not sure what options you have or how many miles, so I just checked all the expensive ones and put 5k miles down).


In addition, people almost always overvalue their car. If your car is not brand new, it is not in "excellent" condition. It just doesn't happen. Most cars, even cars less than a year old, are in "good" condition once you've driven it more than a few hundred miles. That is a major pitfall people run into- of course THEIR car could NEVER be in "poor" shape- but people are almost always blind to their own, and their car's flaws.

But anyway, that's just a quick overview- in this case, I think the dealer was actually trying to be helpful, not trying to rip you off. From those prices he offered you, he was being about as fair as they get in dealer land.

I know you think the dealer was out to get you, but this is just how they work. And when you consider the time and expense you might have to go through to actually get rid of the car (for sale ads, excess mileage, loss of time on your part, and the longer the car doesn't sell the less it'll actually be worth) it's not always such a bad deal.

Sigma

Remember, NADA and KBB values are horribly slow to react to market forces. It might say $44,500 now but next week (or months, whenever) when they finally update their database it might say $41,000.

For example when you could buy brand new '04 RX-8 GTs for $24,000 earlier this year (and might still find a couple out there) NADA and KBB were saying that used '04s with 10,000 miles on them were worth $27,000 privately and $25,000 trade-in. Obviously no dealer was going to give you anything close to that, and no private buyer was going to buy your used car for $3,000 more than a brand new one.

All in all a quote for $42,000 when NADA and KBB are saying $44,000 isn't that bad at all. That's only a 5% difference. That's like getting $9,500 on a car worth $10,000 -- that's a perfectly fine deal.

And, for what it's worth, when I check NADA and KBB, they both state that the car is worth $42,100. I'm betting that you are clicking "Excellent" for the condition, and a dealer will never give you "Excellent" no matter what the condition is. About the only chance you have of getting a price like that is at a BMW dealer who can turn around and sell t Certified Used and make a better margin on it. Most private buyers won't give you "Excellent" either, so don't be surprised if you have to lower the price to $46,500 to sell it. Unless you live somewhere where there's a high demand anyhow.

Cattywampus

Whats up Tiga. Hows TPD treating you. I can only tell you what those 2 said^^^^. I would seel the car outright. Then purchase the 8. Do you have any equity in the M?

th1rd3y3

So you're going from an M3 to an RX-8?

I would have to ask what kind of drugs you are on, because I certainly can not fathom that trade.

xdrian

its true, i work in Mazda and Used put together so we give people a decent amount of money for ther trade in. In return they dont have to go out on thier own and try to sell the car. You come in say you want to trade it in, we appraise it, we cut the check for what you owe and then we incorporate that with your new car payment. Its hard to explain but some dealerships are out there to rip you a new hole and some are there to help you out. It depends on the overall attitude of the dealership.

In my dealership, everyone likes to be friendly. Many customers complain about other dealerships and are supprised when they speak with our salesman. We like to keep a good reputation so people come back to us and not send people running away.

Also KBB and NADA are a bit too pricey. Our dealership uses Galves to give customers appraisals on thier cars. Then we break it down to you how much everything in your car is worth, if your over miles and so on.

chrism

i was just gonna say i havent heard of many dealers using kbb or nada any more....because they are merely guides and suggestions of what the car MAY be worth....the galves book is allot closer and updated allot more frequently than the other guides...usually from what i have seen the galves value is somewhere between 1500-3000 below the trade in value of kbb......then when they use that figure they have to subtract reconditioning of the car.....so if kbb says its worth 44 then expect to get 40-41 and if they are giving you more then you should jump on it because they are buying it too high and wont be making too much profit on the car......can you tell i used to be in the business too?

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

I suppose in addition to top dollar for your trade you also want bottom dollar on the 8?

Elara

I should have mentioned this too- no dealer is ever going to give you KBB or NADA values, trade-in or otherwise. There are a lot of "dealer only" guides out there, and in general, that's where the prices come from. KBB and NADA values are great for advertising, especially, because dealers can always say "$XXXX BELOW KELLEY BLUE BOOK" and people see that and think "well, I MUST be getting a good deal since it's below KBB!" or "I'm getting ripped of because KBB says XXXX." And that is patently not true.

th1rd3y3

Last 2 vehicles I've traded, I've gotten as much or more than KBB/Edmunds said I should have. With both vehicles being sold at invoice or slightly higher than invoice.

It might just be the dealers around here, but I walked in and handed them both a KBB and an Edmunds quote and said this is what I have and this is what I want. Both times I was surprised when they gave me what I was quoted or a little more.

The Subaru dealer that we bought our STi from ONLY uses KBB for trade-ins, so I wouldn't say no one uses them, although it is a suprise when you say this is what I want and they say "OK".

VikingDJ

I have to respectfully disagree with Elara as well, but you should not expect to be able to get it. There are occasions where you can get KBB trade in value. Example being my STI, which I was initially offered $500 below KBB value, but then when I said no thanks they suddenly offered me full KBB. The RX8 I'd likely get shafted on, but that is due to it's very low demand. Cars that are not massively produced and/or can sell fast and easily in used from like the STI can get close to, at, or over KBB. Actually my girlfriend got $500 over KBB last year for her 2002 Xterra. My neighbor also got several hundred over KBB trade in on his 1998 Honda Accord. I can name many more occasions where you can get it, so what Elara states is not entirely true. However,
you have to prepare for being low balled. If they low ball you, you simply say no thanks. If they are trying to get more money out of you, they will budge and change their trade in value, as they did with me once on my 1995 Golf. amd on my STI. If they let you walk, you know that it's all car is worth to them, and they are not trying to rip you off.

VikingDJ

That is correct as far as Subaru goes here where I live. They go by that, as long as the car matches exactly what trade in says.

Ike

Same with Subaru dealers here, they're pretty good with trades at Subaru. They will often offer special programs as well where you can get over KBB if you trade in for a new Subaru. A couple months ago they offered me more than I might be able to get selling my WRX through a private party.

VikingDJ

That situation backfired on me, because at time I was looking to buy a 2005 Legacy GT. I haggled with them until they went $800 below invoice, in which they were very unwilling to begin with, and could not go any lower. Then after that was taken care of I casually mentioned my trade. That led them to go $500 below KBB. To prevent me from walking, they matched KBB. I thought about it and decided to hang onto STI for time being. Dealers hate what I did, and I feel very unwelcome there now, but if you have the courage, you can take them down as low as possible. If you are willing to walk, stand your ground, and throw out your request as a take it or leave it, they will either let you go, or agree to it.

Ike

Had a deal for an 05 STi for 29,800 with higher than KBB for my trade, had to chicken out though with the new house purchase looming.