Breaking...Porsche Boxter Engine Failure Rate 20%+? Porsche Community Enraged
11-15-2008, 10:46 PM
#1
Breaking...Porsche Boxter Engine Failure Rate 20%+? Porsche Community Enraged
It's apparently the intermediate shaft which is breaking, as it's bolted together. Read on...
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/wil...gine-failures/
Porsche Boxster Engine Failures Mount
By Stephan Wilkinson
November 7, 2008
Are you aware of the appalling rate of Boxster engine failures, which I’m only now becoming aware of through participation in some Boxster forums? Some estimates (Bruce Anderson, for one) are that 20 percent of Boxster engines don’t make it past 100,000 miles witout a catastrophic failure. The standard failure is what the cognoscenti universally refer to as the IMS–the intermediate shaft. It’s apparently bolted together, and the bolts fail, then everything internal claps hands and you’re looking at a replacement crate engine. I’m hoping the fact that Susan never revs past maybe 4,000 will spare us, but I’d be careful if I were you. There was a recent Porsche Club event that 11 Boxsters participated in. One had an IMS failure during the event and two of the other Boxsters participating had previously had their engines replaced due to IMS failures. Three out of 11 equals 27 percent. It’s a quiet secret within the Porsche community, and there are reasonably knowledgeable people who claim these engines were built as cheapies to get through the warranty period unscathed–which the apparently often don’t–and that PAG hasn’t the faintest interest in second, third and fourth owners. And they used to say the entry-level Porsche was a used Porsche.
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/wil...gine-failures/
Porsche Boxster Engine Failures Mount
By Stephan Wilkinson
November 7, 2008
Are you aware of the appalling rate of Boxster engine failures, which I’m only now becoming aware of through participation in some Boxster forums? Some estimates (Bruce Anderson, for one) are that 20 percent of Boxster engines don’t make it past 100,000 miles witout a catastrophic failure. The standard failure is what the cognoscenti universally refer to as the IMS–the intermediate shaft. It’s apparently bolted together, and the bolts fail, then everything internal claps hands and you’re looking at a replacement crate engine. I’m hoping the fact that Susan never revs past maybe 4,000 will spare us, but I’d be careful if I were you. There was a recent Porsche Club event that 11 Boxsters participated in. One had an IMS failure during the event and two of the other Boxsters participating had previously had their engines replaced due to IMS failures. Three out of 11 equals 27 percent. It’s a quiet secret within the Porsche community, and there are reasonably knowledgeable people who claim these engines were built as cheapies to get through the warranty period unscathed–which the apparently often don’t–and that PAG hasn’t the faintest interest in second, third and fourth owners. And they used to say the entry-level Porsche was a used Porsche.
11-15-2008, 10:54 PM
#3
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Don't forget the porosity issues on the 1st year boxsters and 911's of the same vintage where the entire block was leaking.
The running joke at the local Porsche dealer in Marin here in Northern CA was that it wasn't a Check Engine light, but rather a Change Engine light, and they ended up replacing nearly 50% if the first year boxsters engines that came through the dealer.
The running joke at the local Porsche dealer in Marin here in Northern CA was that it wasn't a Check Engine light, but rather a Change Engine light, and they ended up replacing nearly 50% if the first year boxsters engines that came through the dealer.
11-15-2008, 10:58 PM
#4
Read the 3rd and 9th comments after the article:
JeremyR :
November 7th, 2008 at 8:37 pm
There’s no “rumor” about this. Porsche Pete’s Boxster Board is awash in IMS-related discussion much of the time. Several members have experienced IMS failure (one of them twice), and some have left the Porsche brand because of it.
Only Porsche knows for sure what the failure rate is, and they’re not talking. Anecdotally, most engines that do fail, do so before 50K miles. The factory warranty (in the US, anyway) is 4 years/50K miles, but many owners don’t put anywhere near 50K on their Porsches in 4 years, so a lot of failures happen out of warranty.
Porsche sometimes steps in and helps out with engine replacements for cars that are out of warranty, but they are not consistent about this, and even under a “cost-sharing” arrangement, the hapless owner can still be on the hook for thousands of dollars. If Porsche doesn’t help at all, one is looking at around $15K for a replacement engine, give or take, which is nearly what some older Boxsters are worth.
The IMS failure isn’t limited to the Boxsters, either–Caymans, 996s and 997’s share the same “M96″ engine. The model year 2009 911 features a all-new engine which does not have an IMS; this engine will eventually find its way into Boxsters and Caymans as well. But besides that, Porsche apparently has no plans to address this design defect.
As the relatively new owner of a 2005 Boxster (with lots of miles to go before 50K), I’m a little concerned about this myself, although I knew of the potential for a failure before buying the car. If my engine suffers a catastrophic failure before the warranty expires next year, I’m not sure what I’ll do, but it certainly would tarnish my opinion of the Porsche brand.
But until that happens, the car is simply a blast to drive! So I try not to worry about it too much…
And the 9th:
jaje :
November 7th, 2008 at 10:29 pm
I’ve owned many Porsche’s over the years and currently race in a spec series in one. The IMS is not the only problem as the rear main seal often leaks. The mating on the block where it mounts is not exactly perfectly level making the fact that installing the rear main seal much harder job to do it perfectly.
To make this more alarming it is not just centered on the 986/987 Porsche’s but also the 996 and 997 911s have these same failures. Ever note that the early 996s (99-03) are actually now much cheaper than a comparable 993 (94-98).
For the 996 and 986 Porsche outsourced the engine design to an unknown party and partially built there - Porsche is very tight lipped on this fact. They then brought in Honda to help improve their production efficiency and quality capabilities. Quality went up through the roof and their profit margins skyrocketed leaving them the funds to design the Cayenne and now purchase VW. Porsche though has quietly kept these engine failures a secret for a long time - well unless you owned a Porsche and talked to others.
If you look at it this way - a crate 3.4 engine is $14k installed by the dealer. Make sure you have a CPO and you will be fine.
JeremyR :
November 7th, 2008 at 8:37 pm
There’s no “rumor” about this. Porsche Pete’s Boxster Board is awash in IMS-related discussion much of the time. Several members have experienced IMS failure (one of them twice), and some have left the Porsche brand because of it.
Only Porsche knows for sure what the failure rate is, and they’re not talking. Anecdotally, most engines that do fail, do so before 50K miles. The factory warranty (in the US, anyway) is 4 years/50K miles, but many owners don’t put anywhere near 50K on their Porsches in 4 years, so a lot of failures happen out of warranty.
Porsche sometimes steps in and helps out with engine replacements for cars that are out of warranty, but they are not consistent about this, and even under a “cost-sharing” arrangement, the hapless owner can still be on the hook for thousands of dollars. If Porsche doesn’t help at all, one is looking at around $15K for a replacement engine, give or take, which is nearly what some older Boxsters are worth.
The IMS failure isn’t limited to the Boxsters, either–Caymans, 996s and 997’s share the same “M96″ engine. The model year 2009 911 features a all-new engine which does not have an IMS; this engine will eventually find its way into Boxsters and Caymans as well. But besides that, Porsche apparently has no plans to address this design defect.
As the relatively new owner of a 2005 Boxster (with lots of miles to go before 50K), I’m a little concerned about this myself, although I knew of the potential for a failure before buying the car. If my engine suffers a catastrophic failure before the warranty expires next year, I’m not sure what I’ll do, but it certainly would tarnish my opinion of the Porsche brand.
But until that happens, the car is simply a blast to drive! So I try not to worry about it too much…
And the 9th:
jaje :
November 7th, 2008 at 10:29 pm
I’ve owned many Porsche’s over the years and currently race in a spec series in one. The IMS is not the only problem as the rear main seal often leaks. The mating on the block where it mounts is not exactly perfectly level making the fact that installing the rear main seal much harder job to do it perfectly.
To make this more alarming it is not just centered on the 986/987 Porsche’s but also the 996 and 997 911s have these same failures. Ever note that the early 996s (99-03) are actually now much cheaper than a comparable 993 (94-98).
For the 996 and 986 Porsche outsourced the engine design to an unknown party and partially built there - Porsche is very tight lipped on this fact. They then brought in Honda to help improve their production efficiency and quality capabilities. Quality went up through the roof and their profit margins skyrocketed leaving them the funds to design the Cayenne and now purchase VW. Porsche though has quietly kept these engine failures a secret for a long time - well unless you owned a Porsche and talked to others.
If you look at it this way - a crate 3.4 engine is $14k installed by the dealer. Make sure you have a CPO and you will be fine.
11-15-2008, 11:00 PM
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The only Boxster owner I know had absolutely nothing but drivetrain issues. But there's so many of those on the road I can't imagine them having a critical failure rate of 20%. That's incredibly high.
11-16-2008, 09:00 PM
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Sad to see it happening but then again for all the trash talk the rotary has suffered from oil metering issues I know how they feel.
I hope Porsche sticks up for their product and takes care of their customers.
I hope Porsche sticks up for their product and takes care of their customers.
11-17-2008, 12:39 AM
#12
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I doubt Porsche would intentionally design the I.S to fail, why?
At least Mazda are standing by their RENESIS in the North American market with an 8 year warranty.
The rest of the world has a go jump attitude by their Mazda distributors and MMC Japan...very poor really.
At least Mazda are standing by their RENESIS in the North American market with an 8 year warranty.
The rest of the world has a go jump attitude by their Mazda distributors and MMC Japan...very poor really.
11-17-2008, 12:46 AM
#13
Im not so sure, never research on that topic, but IMO Mazda is a much bigger company than Porsche am I wrong ?
So that might be the problem with Porsche. these engine replacement within warranty are already killing them. if they back their engine with a 8 yr warranty on it ... Porsche probably gonna go bankrupt.
11-17-2008, 12:50 AM
#14
Super Moderator
Mazda definitely produce more units than Porsche, but as far as profitability? they both may not be too far apart?
11-17-2008, 12:53 AM
#15
but hmm profitability ? .... not quite sure. I still think Mazda probably makes more money than Porsche.
Porsche still lives because they're a special brand like Ferrari. ppl are willing to spend the money on their cars, for the brand, looks, performance.
Porsche's cars were never that practical for everyday use tho (until the SUV one comes out, but still not a great SUV IMO)
Anyway, This engine thing is really ridiculous.
Last edited by nycgps; 11-17-2008 at 12:55 AM.
11-17-2008, 01:00 AM
#16
"Porsche has raised its stake yet again in Volkswagen, going from a bit above 30% ownership in the German giant to a solid 35.14%."
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/09/16/p...ffer-for-audi/
Porsche must be bigger than Mazda by that fact alone, I think.
But then again, Ford owns roughly 1/3 of Mazda.
...
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/09/16/p...ffer-for-audi/
Porsche must be bigger than Mazda by that fact alone, I think.
But then again, Ford owns roughly 1/3 of Mazda.
...
11-17-2008, 01:02 AM
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porsche has one of the highest profit margins in the business.
last year i think it was around 20% per car, where as GM, Ford, Toyota were are all around 1-2% .
Porsche is also rapidly buying VW stock, i assume from all the money they are making.
last year i think it was around 20% per car, where as GM, Ford, Toyota were are all around 1-2% .
Porsche is also rapidly buying VW stock, i assume from all the money they are making.
11-17-2008, 08:02 AM
#18
"Porsche has raised its stake yet again in Volkswagen, going from a bit above 30% ownership in the German giant to a solid 35.14%."
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/09/16/p...ffer-for-audi/
Porsche must be bigger than Mazda by that fact alone, I think.
But then again, Ford owns roughly 1/3 of Mazda.
...
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/09/16/p...ffer-for-audi/
Porsche must be bigger than Mazda by that fact alone, I think.
But then again, Ford owns roughly 1/3 of Mazda.
...
Hmm. I hate VW's cars. and they break quite often, not as much as american made cars tho.
11-17-2008, 10:57 AM
#23
Porsche has much more capital than Mazda. VW is huge and Porsche is running them at the moment. This is most likely due to strong profit of their SUVs amongst other things.
Paul.
Paul.
11-17-2008, 11:43 AM
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I have heard of this...a friends parents experienced engine failure on their Boxster at ~20,000 miles...lucky for them the car was still in warranty so Porsche replaced it. Pretty outrageous the failure rate is so high...makes me feel a bit better about our rotary.