playdoh43

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...an_comparison/

i think its a good read and generally agree with the results.
its sort of like the rx8 vs 350Z comparison where the rx8 stands no chance vs a 350Z on the race track but too bad they are not race cars, but sports cars. so the 330i and rx8 in many ways are better overall packadges for the average buyer.

the other comparison is here
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...pe_comparison/
im pretty shocked at how fast the Z4 is... 0-60 and 1/4 mile times are slightly better than even the 350Z coupe... not to mention the sick skid pad and figure 8 stats. i have a whole new level of respect for that car now.

CarAndDriver

Well it wasn't too kind to the 350Z...fast but not all that graceful. But we all knew that already. The 8 is a precision scalpel and the Z is a rough powerful chainsaw.

BMW is supposed to bring in a lower priced roadster slotting under the Z4. The price and the polarizing styling haven't set sales figures ablaze.

playdoh43

sorry but the 350Z's handling is very precise, wrong analogy. if you read the lightning round article from C&D or this article about the G sedan, they even mention you have to drive it in a precise style. if anything the Z is the scaple while Rx8 is the one thats more tossable and fun to drive and you can get more creative with tossing the weight around.

im still amazed how fast the Z4 is, i used to not think much of them... used to think they are underbpowerd like the rx8, but obviously those things are deceptively fast

CarAndDriver

If you took the time to read any of the many car journalist articles on the 350Z and 8 you'd find the analogy is apt.

The 350Z is heavy and a handful to drive well at the limit. It has brute force that requires a lot of attention to drive deftly. A chainsaw has much more brute cutting force than a scalpel, but requires a handful and the results aren't that pretty at times.

The 8 is masterful on the curves, it can be placed precisely and is very accurate, benign, and an extension of the driver.

The new G and the 8 are generations apart on suspension engineering. The revised Z should be a much easier to drive vehicle.

Ike

Keep in mind there are two engine options and most of the Z4s on the road have the 215hp version. The same was true for the Z3.

CarAndDriver

Can't really tell if the 3.0Si versions have a badge on the side notating Si.

NgoRX8

iTrader: (1)

BMW makes fast cars. i never looked at the specs for it before. but 12 lb/hp, 50/50 weight distribution. sounds good.

UFGator12

I think that this statement is only true since the recent line has come out. Before, I thought the 3 series coupe's were so slow. Only 225 hp with the 330i or 330ci. Not good, and as Ike said, most had the 325i or ci and that was only like 175 hp if I remember correctly. That is not a fast car.

NgoRX8

iTrader: (1)

well, seeing as how they always underrate their hp. they're usually faster than what most people think.

playdoh43

the 225hp 330i and ci did 0-60 in 6.1 sec and 1/4 mile in 14.7 pretty much on par with the rx8 despite weighing 300-400lb more.

playdoh43

ohh i wasnt aware of that, always thought all the Z4s made the same hp.. i guess that explains it.

Ike

Many BMWs are deceptively quick, especially at highway speeds. The way their engines deliver power has always been topnotch. Take a 10 year old 328is and put it against an RX-8 on a highway roll and I bet the 3 series pulls away. The E36 3 series were amazing cars and are among the most influential cars of all time. They were the benchmark.

What you just said is what people will be saying about the RX-8 for years to come and 10 years from now I'll probably be defending on some message board somewhere

playdoh43

bmw has a different tunning philosophy from most japanese NA engine makers... Japanese cars are very concerned with peak hp and tries to squeeze out everything they can to get the highest hp rating possible.

bmw on the other hand sacrafices peak hp for useable powerband. if you notice, most japanese highly tuned NA engines usually get their peak torque very late in the powerband, and the peak toque only lasts a few hundred RPMs...
bmws usually get max torque from 1500rpm all the way to 5500rpm. if bmw wanted to, they could easily raise the redline and pick up a good 25-35hp while their torque curve would take big hit and become more japanese-like

like they often says, peak hp and torque is for marketing people, its the area under the curve that counts. the area under bmw power/torque curves are usually much more than japanese engine with the same peak hp rating.

map

That's not true at all. BMW has the same philosophy as Honda, just not as extreme. They make power through revs. The 325 particularly is very slow till high revs, and if you read some BMW boards you will see people complaining about lack of torque. The new 335 with the turbo is one of the first BMW engines with the torque to push you back in your seat from any spot in the rev range. That's why it's rolling times (10-60, 50-100, whatev) beat an M3 by more than a little, even when it's 0-60 does not.

playdoh43

to the contrary my family has 2 bmws. a 2004 325 and 2002 M3, my mom's 325 have a lot of torque down low for its meager 175hp rating. uppon checking yahoo, the peak torque comes at 2750 rpm. thats very low and it last for a long time till at least 5000rpm, probably higher. so im not sure what youre talking about? the redline is not even that high, around 6500rpm...

you are mistaking the regular 3 series with the M series... which is tuned to maximize peak hp with max torque not arriving until 4900...

playdoh43

ohh and btw, just because you get max torque downlow and for a long time, dosnt mean the engine runs out of breath up top either , its normal to feel more and more power as you rev up on any NA engine.

sunilseru

Z4 si 0-60 in 5.1 secs
Z4 M 0-60 in 4.8/4.9 secs...

interesting - I thought there will be a larger 0-60 diff

dillsrotary

you see more in the 1/4 time
z4 si 14.00
z4 M 13.4

probably a traction issue with the 0-60 times, or the computer doesn't like hard launches and holds the power back.

GULAMAN

Also check to see if BMW played around w/ final drive ratio between the regular and M models. could contribute to perceived acceleration differences. I know for example that BMW even changed the final drive on the E46 330i ZHP edition compared to the regular 330i.

9291150

Ok, this is something I know firsthand. My best buddy has a '04 330 coupe and he can't pull on me (nor I on him). But you say a 10 year old 328 can? I share your view on E36's, but they weren't faster than the current gen.

Gotta love Ike logic.

dillsrotary

i didn't think of that, good point

Ike

Does your "buddy" have a sport/performance package? The E36 328is sport is a little faster than the E46 330i unless it has the performance package. The point isn't really if the 328is is faster than the RX-8 or not, it was that they weren't all that slow for their time.

DailyDriver2k5

I had a 94' 325is with the dinan sport package, it included the dinan chip, air intake and exhaust , all from the factory, also had the 16" BMW mesh rim package instead of the nasty 14 or 15" wheels. Brought off a guy who was a BMW nut case. I couldn't believe it was from the factory.... boy that car could move out! You got to love BMW's strait 6, endless amounts of torque through the rev band!

Design1stCode2nd

Also keep in mind the 06 Z4 gets the 06 e90 engines so 215 and 250 I think or somewhere around there. I'd expect the 07 or 08 z4 to have the 335 twin turbo enginefrom the 335i, now that should be a sweet little expensive roadster.

CarAndDriver

And that's why BMW is bringing in an entry level roadster. They've priced themselves into the stratosphere.