So try one! You're always so blunt and brutally honest, I'd love to hear what you think after driving it and actually sitting in one.

I saw one the other day in town here and thought my daughter would really like it - it may be a cool first car. Scions are parent pleasers for sure. Good reputation for safety features and reliability.

So true, but maybe not this Scion though. The Scion version especially is apparently really easy to get sideways by design. They're trying to appeal to the young "drifting" guys audience apparently. The Subaru version is supposedly safer to drive.

And at least for now, many of them are having some problems like an erratic idle, almost stalling at stop signs, a chirping noise that develops after a few hundred miles, etc. It'll probably be reliable once they get through the first year problems, but right now it doesn't sound like much fun for many of them :(

Needing to see what all the FR-S hoopla was all about, I went to Toyota of Escondido to do a side by side comparison, the FR-S and the 2011 R3.

I compared the suspension, engine, engine compartment, body lines panel (fitment), paint quality, tires, wheels, interior, seats, dash, switches and so on, utilizing a nuts and bolts approach.

That being said, there really was not anything engineered better on the FR-S, than on the 2004 RX-8 GT I owned.

It is my belief, the variable cam timing system is a weak area, system. The amount heat and abuse the adjusters will be subjected to is extreme.

It would not surprise me a bit if the chirping, idle dipping concerns are caused
by the adjuster located on the exhaust value cam on the drivers side cyl head, just a W A G.:wallbash:

Would I buy one of the twins, nope. But I would wine and dine the girl
that is the FR-S sales rep. She has a rocken body.

It is my extremely uneducated, misinformed, bias opinion the RX-8 is by far a better engineered car.

digger you dog!!!
good job on research :yesnod:

One would hope (and I'm sure you are correct)! There is almost a $7-10K dif in dealer cost between a '04 RX-8 and any 2012 twins, and that's not even considering dollar inflation over the near decade between them. Some big expense has gotta give under the skins to do that...

Dang, someone knows what theyre talking about. Good research.

Spin9k
I'm not sure I understand the $7-10k dif in dealer cost between a '04 RX-8 and any 2012 twins thing.:confused:
The FR-S I check out, will cost 27k bottom line,out the door price.
The 2011 R3 I have was 28k out the door.( I just had to have those wheels)

11 RX-8 Sport, 4 Door Coupe $26,795 msrp, is close to the FR-S avalible today.

NEW IN 2004
Model and Trim Level
2004 Mazda RX-8 Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price.

RX-8 2 Door Quad Coupe, 6 Speed Transmission $26,680
RX-8 2 Door Quad Coupe, Automatic Transmission $25,180

NEW IN 2011
Mazda RX-8 Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price (MSRP)
Model and Trim Level
RX-8 Grand Touring, 4 Door Coupe, 6 Speed Transmission $32,260
RX-8 Grand Touring, 4 Door Coupe, Automatic Transmission $32,960
RX-8 R3, 4 Door Coupe $32,290
RX-8 Sport, 4 Door Coupe $26,795


Wloof, wooof, woof= Cocktails??

He seems to be comparing the new-model pricing on the FR-S to when the RX-8 was a new model, instead of the manufacturer-subsidized last-year's-discontinued-slow-selling-model pricing.

Besides the bugs, these are some of the things missing and that are bad with the Scion/Subaru


Check the A pill when making a left
Radio does not face driver
touch screen
No steering wheel controls
No Sun roof
Blows hot air with AC off
No center console
passenger seat alarm goes off with cell phone in the seat.
Clunky interface with GPS
light steering feel
sliding map light button
check head rest comfort
check head rest blocking rear window view
Head rest not adjustable
no vanity mirror light
dead spot at 3k RPM
no lock on Glove box
No sun glass holder
Cup holder location?
Engine Sound
Chrome Head Lights
No courtesy door lights
Bespoke radio
Intake noise generator
On off button is same as volume button
Can only fold down the rear seats from the trunk?
Bluetooth only works with Iphone
Car shaking and idle diping, sometimes dying, VCC and cam being replaced
Chirping sound from engine, HPFP being replace, high pressure fuel pump
No Lumbar support
Check parking break to see if it is in the way
They lie, it does not have a double wishbone rear suspension.
It has a multinlink rear suspension that employs a single uppper control arm and a trio of (aka multiple) links

I've actually gotten a chance to drive the Scion version. Even though I prefer the BRZ, none of the Subaru dealers in this area had one, and the Toyota/Scion dealership had gotten two FR-S. And its not a bad car; I have also gotten a chance to drive a RX8 Grand Sport and 2011 Genesis Coupe V6 and they drive a bit better than it. It does needs a few improvements on it, but hopefully the manufactures fixes that within the production cycle.

Sales success? Scion hits sales highs with FR-S sports car 'halo'

The Genesis Coupe sucks as a drivers car. I keep reading that the twins drive and feel like the Miata and Rx-8 (yes they don't have the same engineering but are said to be just as good as drivers car). If this is true the Genesis does not come close, sure its faster but the rest of the car is not that great ,simply because of the weight. Also did you notice how the engine in both the V-6 and turbo four hangs onto revs badly? It made driving it smoothly difficult. Simply put, I find reasons to go out and drive my Rx-8, while the half hour test drive of the Genesis was more than enough for me.

HKS has a S/C kit for the BR-Z and FR-S.