Originally Posted by TheColonel

Avalon, it was due to lack of sales. However, the lack of sales did not stem from a lack of interest. The Camaro's and Firebirds was too much speed for too little money as far as the insurance companies were concerned. One of the main target buyers, young men, simply could not afford the insurance. My father bought an '02 when I was 18. We called up the insurance company for fun and asked how much it would be for me to insure it on my own policy. With a clean record, it still came to about $5000/yr.

I've been told by more than one dealer that on many occasions they've had young customers putting down deposits and getting ready to sign papers, only to back out once they called thier insurance company.

The insurance companies were partly right. The Z28's and Trans AM's can very VERY fast. People often under-estimate them due to the purposely under-rated HP numbers and the high weight.

Also, these cars are not like the 8 when it comes to engine mods. Being that both used a purposefully de-tuned Corvette engine, (GM didn't want the Camaro and the Corvette competing) they can be pumped up to very high HP and TQ numbers for very little money. For a few thousand dollars you can build a 500+ HP car without FI and using stock internals. The result was a lot of 17-24yo morons wrapping their cars around telephone poles at 180mph. So in a sense, sadly, it was those who loved the F-bodies that eventually killed them off. I’ve heard rumor that the use of the Chevelle name was being contemplated for this reason, so that the insurance companies wouldn't look at the new Camaro’s as another nightmare liability.

Originally Posted by Mugatu

i HATE the hood - it's reminiscent of the fugly hoods of the 90s. the back is good though, somewhat original. i still think the thing is too damn big.

Originally Posted by Transam kid 01

There should be no reason at all that it is slower than a mustang

Originally Posted by Japan8

huh? not disagreeing with the premise... just that this seemed to come out of nowhere.

Ford... YOU IDIOTS! Should have stuck with the damn 302 and 351 Windsor. Put some more work into 351 Windsor... it'd have been cheaper and kicked the *** of the weany 4.6 MOD engine.

Originally Posted by BaronVonBigmeat

It would be tough for a Windsor to pass modern emissions I bet.

Ford should have finished up their "Hurricane" engine project, but they canceled it apparently. It would have been a next-gen pushrod motor like the LS-2 and the new Hemi. Now they have to resort to a giant top-heavy motor, with 4 cams, 32 valves, and a supercharger to match the competition's simple N/A designs.

Originally Posted by s13lover

I like the exterior of the Challanger concept more, but the interior is the best of the the retro cars so far (alittle over-the-top, but the overall shape of the seats, dash, and door panels is good).

Originally Posted by rx8wannahave

Yeah true...but, at least for GM they are getting better fuel economy with those bigger stronger engines so then other than size what's the benifit of DOHC engines again????

They originally said (from what I read) it was more efficient giving more power at a smaller size yet they weigh more, are more complex, expensive, and have worse fuel economy.

So, to me at least I think GM has the right idea...keep making the OHV (or is it OHC?...I forget) or pushrod engine since I'm always impressed by a 400HP V8 that get's 28mpg in the highway.

Originally Posted by Japan8

HOWEVER... in Ford's defense... you are also comparing apples to oranges. What's the displacement of the LS2 in the Corvette? What's the displacement in the Mustang GT and last Cobra? Even the GT500 (and Ford GT) only have a 5.4L engine. Both GM and Chrysler are using larger displacement motors.