Slick8

Last night I dreamt I was driving a 2007 Renesis MX-5. I woke up in the morning hopeful...

Would a Renesis MX-5 be a sales success or failure? How would it affect Mazda's sales of the RX-8, good or bad move. I'm sure Mazda entertained this idea, but I assume since the Renesis MX-5 doesn't exist, Mazda already decided it was a bad business decision.

Am I missing something with this logic? In my mind, I think it's a great move for Mazda and would be a sales hit everywhere. Where is the disconnect?

*EDIT: I assume Mazda watches this forum for its market research*

snizzle

they'd have to call it an RX something.... just a thought

toxin440

i love the RX8, correction i love MY RX8, but the thought when reading this is... what would it be like to stick a rotary in a Miata? i mean hell the engines in our cars are tiny and crank out a lotta power for their size, why not stick the small engine in a small car and just tear **** up

mooboy

RX-5 easy.

Raptor2k

According to what I've read on the forum...a lot of posters say that a Renesis powered mx-5 would 'destroy' the competition.


Wouldn't a 2-seater coupe make it a rx7?

Do it, Mazda!

Slick8

It's funny that the 2006 MX-5 chassis and trans are the same as the RX-8.

I just bought a RB front sway today from a guy who had it on his 2006 MX-5.

Makes me wonder.

ASH8

It would be a huge hit IMO...I would get one FOR SHURE...

Some earlier post said that a RENISIS would not fit into the latest MX-5, I don't believe that as the 4 banger has been move further back toward the bulkhead like the RX-8.

As far as toxin440 concerned about the 13B (RX-8) engine (power), Mazda could easily and for little extra cost turn the 12A into RENISIS Specifications and then drop that into the MX-5, and call it an RX-5, even though that name was used in the 1980's.

Imagine the sound of a purring rotary in a convertible with the top down...almost heaven.

Come on Mazda...

Shinka_518

It all sounds great, but I think it would be a hard sell to loyal MX-5 owners. I believer they would really have to get a better gas mileage or they would lose thousands of customers. But the idea sounds good to an 8 lover.

518!

blakew15

For once im going to do some searching...

https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...t=rotary+miata
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...t=rotary+miata
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...t=rotary+miata

RX8_GT

Better to see a Kabura based coupe - with a 4 in-line Standard with a Rotary upgrade.

The Miata market is 'mature' IMHO and based on the L4 - although a rotary upgrade would be great for some drivers.

RichardK

I've seen people writing in magazines like "Car" that the RX8 would be utterly unbeatable if it had a V6 instead of the Renesis; they view the Rotary as the car's primary weakness.

But, I think that for every person who doesn't buy it because of the poor economy and lack of torque (and being realistic, no-one really believes the Rotary is more efficient in terms of real-world applications now, do they? It doesn't matter how much power from how many ccs you get if the overall result is less power/torque for the fuel put in), there's someone that buys it because of the insane geek value, the insane rev limits, or insane smoothness.

I'm a total cargeek. My primary reasons for wanting the RX8 were "it's RWD and in my price range (not much RWD in the UK)". The secondary reasons were "it looks DAMN good from the front 3/4 view, is Japanese and likely to be very well made, amd it has a rotary engine".

But the rotary engine is opening up a new social thing for me that I've missed. I like knowing about cars; I'm terrible at doing smalltalk. The Sera, with dihedral doors, sparks a conversation with most people, the Beetle... well, the most conversation one needs with a Beetle Cabriolet is "Yes, it's very nice" and "I'M NOT GAY".

The Mazda though - that's going to be something else. It sounds different, and anyone asking can be assaulted with a history of the rotary engine, a vague description of how it works (though having looked at the Mazda document, I think I am going to settle for "by SCIENCE" as the quick explanation. Any idiot can understand how a conventional engine works - bang, lever is pushed down, force is applied, things move - but the rotary needs equations and diagrams and things).

The RX8 has HUGE appeal for cargeeks (and even non-car geeks, who can appreciate a geeky technology when they see it but feel reassured by Japanese build quality).

The Miata would be a good limited edition home for the rotary. Perhaps a 50th anniversary of the rotary engine's launch in a Mazda in 2013, in a special edition MX-5 Cosmo, with the bonnet pressing of course carrying the rotary symbol.

But really, can anyone think of a logical reason to put one in? Would you want a Miata with less useable torque and considerably worse fuel economy?

ASH8

Good post RichardK...
At my age almost half a century, and working for Mazda most of my working life, I have seen the rotary come and go, now more than ever the RX-8 has revived IMO the rotary appeal to a newer generation,here in OZ the youth are wanting anything rotary RX-2/3/4/5/7.
I know the used market for old rotaries has been around for a while but the demand from guys just getting their licence amazes me.
Thats why I think Mazda should offer a cheaper rotary, ie Kabura (RX-3 or 6), or why not a rotary MX-5, they could still have both, like the old days.
I think an MX-5 with the smaller 12A, lighter body, would achieve about 15-20% better fuel figures than the 13B in the heavier RX-8.
There needs to be a comprehensive business plan on the real merits to another rotary model, but I believe there is room for one more, provided its cheaper, lighter and has 2 doors. The US IMO is very hungry for such a car, as there are many guys with the cash for a $19-20K sports car/rotary.
One can only hope.

max5roadster

I'm one of those "mature" (27yrs old) miataphiles, having owned a 92 for 6 years now. (www.cardomain.com/id/jgaskins) I believe many miata enthusiast would love an optional rotary platform. I know I would! I'd give my kidney for one! (Any one at Mazda need a kidney?) I don't know about fitment because in a piston engine, the crank exists the lower section of the engine, but on a rotary, the Eshaft exists center, so the whole centerline of the engine is higher... Just my 2 Cents... And if Mazda is reading this, there is plenty more of my 2 cents that I could spare to purchase an RX Spyder...

Sportura_Collection

They'd call it an MRX-5.

RichardK

I think the Miata shouldn't be messed with, personally - though I would LOVE one with a Rotary, the Miata saved Mazda's imagine in many markets; if the RX8 is the Halo car, the Miata is the prophet, missionary and preacher.

However, what I would like to see would be something new from Mazda. The MR2 is dead (at least in the UK). The MG TF is dead. The Smart Roadster is on life support. In fact, if you want a 2 seater 'sports car' which isn't at prestige-car money, you have only a handful of choices now - the BMW Z4 (and then only in the 2.0i form really - the good ones are expensive), the MX-5/Miata, and (heh) the Audi TT. The Elise is fragile and expensive, the Opel/Vauxhall Speedster/VX220 similar.

Obviously the US has more home grown hardware to offer, but really, the Solstice isn't even remotely comparable by all accounts.

What about a mid-engined transverse rotary installation in a 2 seater car. Like a Porsche 914, a targa (rigid body), backbone chassis still, but a very low front emphasizing the RX8's fenders. I can picture it in my head and I wish I could draw well enough to show what I mean.

Or, and I know this is going to be abhorrent to most people here - a Renesis transverse with automatic (meaning the driver doesn't have to worry about the torque so much) in an MPV-type vehicle - utilising the packaging advantages and low weight of the Renesis to give class-leading space, weight and safety (think Mercedes A-class double-floor/engine goes under the car in an accident), V6 performance and economy, but unrivalled refinement and low servicing costs. The economy wouldn't be an issue so much in that market - most V6 MPVs are so utterly awful that the Renesis might even be better.

I think young drivers are going for classics more because new cars are mind-numbingly dull. Most of the Sera owners I know are pretty young.

snizzle

I just don't think it'll happen. Less TQ and worse MPG I think are the main points. A blown MazdaSpeed piston engine mx5 could be close in terms of performance anyway and will come given the upcoming GXP/Redline GM roadsters. It would be great for RX owners b/c they would be pushing the Renesis thus justifying more R&D on Rotary.

Here's to slim chance!

Red Devil

I voted for success, but I really don't think it would be a success or a failure. I think it would have to be a limited offering, or maybe just even basically a special order option. The Miata is built on the reputation of being all the fun of a British Roadster while still being reliable and no hassle. The public doesn't view the rotary as being no hassle - if anything it is viewed as the direct opposite. To me, that makes a rotary Miata a cotradiction. I can't count how many Miata owners have told me they love the relatively low power because it's enough to have fun with, but not enough to get yourself into any trouble.

BaronVonBigmeat

^^^I can't count how many would-be Miata owners don't own one because they don't have very much factory HP.

A) You don't need equations and diagrams. If you're dealing with car guys, tell them the rotor oscillates like the pad of an orbital sander. That would be a better name for the engine, it's not really purely rotary. The orbital engine. Hmmm.

B) Yes, I can think of a logical reason. More horsepower. Like, nearly 70 more. In a slightly more compact and lightweight package. Assuming Mazda (or a decent tuner) could bring the renesis up to 250, that's 10 lbs. per horsepower, which is on par with the Lotus Elise. The somewhat worse MPG will be worth it to some and not to others. That's why you make it the optional upgrade engine. The engine torque doesn't mean anything, horsepower does.

As far as financial success goes, it would really depend on how much it would cost Mazda to build/develop. There's obviously some market for it, but at what cost. It would also help if the renesis variant had less cutsey styling, and/or a hardtop option.

RichardK

Orbital engine already exists, some thing done by some Australian bods working with Ford if memory serves me.

I'm happy to use "By SCIENCE!" though. It's a joke, kinda. If I'm dealing with car guys I can explain the planetary gear and ratio of rotor cycles to crankshaft revolutions and so forth.

Frankly, I think people who don't buy the Miata "because it doesn't have much factory HP" are completely missing the point and should buy a used Corvette.

I'm sorry, what? Torque doesn't mean anything, horsepower does? What crap. Without torque, you HAVE no horsepower. And where and for how long the largest amount of torque the engine produces makes a huge difference to how the car drives.

More power - sure. I see no reason why a 2.3 transplant wouldn't deliver it, given the number of conventionally engined cars with 2.0 engines producing > 200bhp. Supercharging. I can think of many ways in which the MX5 can have more power without having the interesting, but inefficient, rotary.

I think for it to be profitable, it would have to have the minimum of body changes - a hood with the rotary pressing would be the most I would expect.

snizzle

how do you figure that?

khtm

There already was an RX-5:



Yeah, but the MX-5 is a convertible, so it wouldn't be a 2-seater *coupe*.

hemanrulez

If it aint broke dont fix it. The Miata is Mazda's biggest selling car. They aint touching it with a light pole, not matter how much sense a RX-5 would make.

khtm

^ biggest selling Mazda "of all time" AFAIK, but not selling very well currently.

I believe the Mazda 3 takes that spot.

Red Devil

I think making it an option like the Solstice GT (or whatever it will be called) would be the best way to offer the Renesis. Then again, isn't Mazda soon to release the Mazdaspeed3? It would probably be better to just take the engine from there as it's already in the Mazdaspeed6.

BaronVonBigmeat

A) Not everyone wants a Corvette.

B) Torque is part of the formula for HP, but it doesn't tell us enough. A car with 300 ft.-lbs. of engine torque might be slower than the car with 100 ft.-lbs. of engine torque. We don't know. Unless of course, you bring in the "where, and for how long" part. Hmm, if only engineers had a succinct term for "torque at a certain point in the RPM band"!

C) You may be right about the last point. The MSM Miata was a turbo, this may be easier and cheaper for them to do than an engine swap. But then again, the Renesis wasn't available when they came out with the MSM (err, I think?).