VikingDJ

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The SI dynos at about 170-180hp. The S2000 dynos at about 200whp. 20whp is not a lot. I pulled away, and I am faster of course, but 20whp isn't gonna smoke anyone, and you know it. What does your RX8 dyno at bone stock? Did you dyno it? Are you modded in any way? If so, this conversation is meaningless. Perhaps you have a 200-210whp RX8. Hey, it's possible, I won't argue it. It's awfully hard to ignore magazine times and dyno results. Somehow people on here manage to ignore them. I can't understand why either.

eviltwinkie

Umm..it only wieghs a little bit less than mine...I can assure you of that...

AND if I was going to be racing at a rolling 20...I would be in 1st gear...and I can also assure you that I would pull VERY hard from it...

I am putting on avg 190 down...so...yeah...again...hate to tell ya...but thats how it has been...

rotary crazy

I agree with you VIKINGDJ, but this is truth of all car, you have to play to your cars strength, my FD had 427 rwhp and I lost to an almost stock supra in a 30 to 80 pull because when the guy hit the gas I was at 2000rpm and my turbo took a long time to spool up

Trekk

Maybe they fixed it... but alot of people felt the drive by wire was sluggish and didnt respond fast.

eviltwinkie

Perhaps thats the thing...yeah...im not bone stock anymore...but its not like you can squeeze anything out of these things either...again...pulley, midpipe, oh and the green airfilter...lets not forget regular maintinence and royal purple fluids haa haa...

They ignore them cause benchracing is ghey...

Time for grub...cheers fellas...

VikingDJ

Fair enough. 190whp average down is one hell of a generous number. YOU GOT LUCKY, or you are not BONE STOCK. Most RX8s dyno 10-15whp less then you. Be glad. You have a faster RX8 then most. Luck of the draw I guess when buying one. So being that you are 25whp higher then a Civic, and nearly identivcal in weight, I believe you will pull on him pretty hard. However, that's just you, that's not most RX8 owners. YOu can argue your car specifically, but you CANNOT argue the RX8 as a whole. Fair enough though.

rotary crazy

drop in K&n filter and lighter wheels, JDM GT( I think), 194rwhp was my average pull

VikingDJ

Fair enough. However, you can't argue your extremely high WHP dyno as a basis for the entire RX8 vs Civic, when the fact is the RX8 does not dyno that regularly. It's 15-20 hp less then that on average. I wish people would compare car vs car as a whole, not MY CAR vs car, and driver skill to say which caris faster.. In a perfect world, the Civic is only about 10 whp less then the RX8. Therefore, it's not gonna get it's butt whopped. However, some cars are faster then others, drivers are better then others, and of course high revving low torque cars such as these require skill to go fast in. I just wanna keep it objective and real here. Too much one sidedness and ignoring the facts. TY.

rotary crazy

you are right, I let my friend drive my car he owns a skyline r33 GT(rwd 2.5 turbo) and he though the rx-8 was super slow, then I drove it with hin in it and he said "damn you have to know to drive this cars to get them to be move" if you let those rpms go out of the power band you are dead

Red Devil

Did you see the SoCal dyno thread? A pretty sizeable numbers of RX-8s at the same dyno on the same day and all were basically between 190-200whp in various states of NA modification from stock to many bolt-ons. Point being, there are a lot more RX-8s out there than you seem to be giving credit for that are putting down decent power numbers. It appears more and more to be anything but "generous". Maybe it's the flashes, maybe it's newer production runs than the early '04s, I really don't know cause I remember the early on mid 170s dyno numbers also.

rowteree

si wins in the straights against the rx8, but we win the twisties

VikingDJ

The Civic SI and S2000 work the same way. I eventually got good at driving my RX8, but it took some time. Once I learned what gear to downshift in, I maximized the rolling power of it. Same with my S2000. When I firt got it, I would downshift, and be at 5500RPMS. That right there makes me slower. I need to be in vtec already when downshifting, or I'm at a severe disadvantage. These cars aren't like the torque monsters. My god, I test drove an auto GTO. Talk about a car anyone can go fast in. just step on the gas and go. Even my Speed 6 is far easier to go faster in. My S2000 is probably just as fast, but boy would I have to work hard to make it as fast. The Speed is effortless.

My S2000 felt slow to me, until I learned the car and shifted at the perfect RPM. If I lose VTECfor even a few hundred RPMS on one or two shifts, I'm vulnerable to lose to even a Civic SI, if he's shifting right. With that said, my former RX8 was not pushing anywhere near 194whp unfortunately. Jumping in an S2000 from my RX8, I actually upgraded my power more then your average person might. I totally got shafted. I never dyno'ed my RX8, but I'd bet anything I was in the 170-175whp range. The car was just lacking compared to this S2000, and that Civic SI I ran into had a pretty impressive driver. He was never out of vtec even slightly. All it takes in a race between an RX8 and a Civic SI is for one driver to be in their max power range when shifting, and another to not be, and the person who is the best driver WILL WIN.

Red Devil. I agree. I did have an early 04 RX8, and I'm not gonna use my car as a sample for a whole, but my car was in fact lacking. The RX8 should have 190-195 all the time on every car, so with that said, it should beat a Civic SI. However, the results just aren't consistent enough as they are with other cars, so there's really no right or wrong in this argument.

Red Devil

agreed.

rotary crazy

agreed.

Ike

Well, the particular dyno will certainly have an effect. Also, I would imagine the flashes make a difference as well as the cars just getting broken in and things being "freed" up a bit.

Then take for instance the most recent C&D comparo with under 25k cars. Every single one them trapped at least 94 mph and they all ran 15 flat or better in the 1/4. It's to the point that all the good sporty cars on the market that most consider a step down from the RX-8 are either about equal or faster than the RX-8 in a straight line. With most people the RX-8's great handling will only go so far and Mazda needs to improve the power if they hope to sell anything but miniscule amounts. Just an FYI, all but one of those cars was rated considerably less in the horsepower department than the RX-8.

Red Devil

Dyno definitely has a lot to do with it. When Cobb comes out with their numbers for the RX-8 many on this forum will have a stroke not accounting for it both being a Mustang dyno and being at SLC elevation.

I think the RX-8 is a quick car, but doesn't really blow the doors off anything in a straightline. And it's been relatively public for a while that bhp for the RX-8 is closer to 215-220bhp from the factory. Couple this with Speedsource statements that drivetrain losses are ~12% we're getting ballpark whp numbers.

And for me, I don't need Mazda to improve the power, I already own the car. I'll add that piece of the equation myself, something I planned on when I purchased the car.

mike0615

buddy of mine just got SI prolly like 3 or 4 months ago. four door white with leather and navi.... 29k!!!!! i dunno, doesn't seem right. it is fairly fast though, he tracked it with tein coilovers and did fairly well. but man, don't know about blowing 29k on a civic, k20 or not. i think i would have went for teh RSX instead if i needed a k20 that badly. i think the RSX chassis is more sportier too if i'm not mistaken. anyway, if u where gonna compair SI vs rx8, i wouldn't even bother. go to RSX vs rx8 and we'll get a better disscusion. IMHO.

BlueEyes

How about Integra Type-R vs RX-8? I have run a civic Si on the track in my ITR and pulled on it, so ITR v. RX-8 should be a decent battle.

mike0615

i think RSX is > ITR. new car, faster engine, stiff chassis.

dillsrotary

i wouldn't say faster engine, stiffer chassis maybe but included the entire suspension the type-r hands down. Plus its lighter.

BlueEyes

haha, think again.

ITR > any front wheel drive car Honda has offered in NA. From a performance standpoint anyway.

mike0615

i don't get it, ITR 195hp, RSX 201hp

ITR 2600 lb

RSX 2800lb

how is the ITR engine faster then the RSX? in japan isn't the RSX still the integra? and don't they have a type r version of the RSX(integra) over in japan too?

imput1234

iTrader: (6)

I didn't know this
I was looking at motor trend
and out car
did the salom @ 67mph
the si did it @ 70mph

The Si did better?

BlueEyes

I weighed my ITR and with a full tank and nobody in it it was 2540 lbs.

What does faster engine mean anyway? Yes, RSX has more hp, more tq, but it's not faster as far as I can tell.

If ever there was a car that made the phrase "more than the sum of it's parts" come to my mind, it's the Type R.

mike0615

lol, faster like "it moves faster then the one compaired too" i don't know how else to put it. but to be fair, maybe i'm being baised, cuz i have seen the RSX in action on the tracks and i was impressed. the same day there was a yellow ITR that caught on fire so maybe thats how i'm judging. i wouldn't mind having either car though. prolly the ITR over the RSX just cuz its more old school. i like older cars.