2004 Pontiac GTO
02-23-2004, 02:34 PM
#101
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Originally posted by Baller
I would if the car was built with quality....but it is not, it is another GM product with a rubber-maid interior and inferior fit and finish, coupled with 60 year old engine designs and styling that looks like a over-grown Neon.
I would if the car was built with quality....but it is not, it is another GM product with a rubber-maid interior and inferior fit and finish, coupled with 60 year old engine designs and styling that looks like a over-grown Neon.
02-23-2004, 02:45 PM
#103
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Originally posted by FamilyGuy
GM uses pushrod V6s in most of their sedans. They have the same reliability, performance, and gas mileage of engines of comparable power outputs from other automakers. What's the problem?
It's an old tech, but so is the wheel. It would be different if GM cars with pushrod engines had engine problems more ofen - but they don't. It would be a problem if they got bad gas mileage - but they don't. It would be a problem if they had poor performance - but they don't. Oh, a pushrod engine has to have larger cylinder displacement than a DOHC engine to get the same power output, but since the total engine weight is comparable because of the pushrod's smaller and lighter valvetrain the difference is meaningless.
My 3400 pound Impala with the 180 horsepower and 205 torque 3.4 liter pushrod V6 gets 24 mpg city, 30 mpg highway. That's pretty good.
GM uses pushrod V6s in most of their sedans. They have the same reliability, performance, and gas mileage of engines of comparable power outputs from other automakers. What's the problem?
It's an old tech, but so is the wheel. It would be different if GM cars with pushrod engines had engine problems more ofen - but they don't. It would be a problem if they got bad gas mileage - but they don't. It would be a problem if they had poor performance - but they don't. Oh, a pushrod engine has to have larger cylinder displacement than a DOHC engine to get the same power output, but since the total engine weight is comparable because of the pushrod's smaller and lighter valvetrain the difference is meaningless.
My 3400 pound Impala with the 180 horsepower and 205 torque 3.4 liter pushrod V6 gets 24 mpg city, 30 mpg highway. That's pretty good.
02-23-2004, 04:25 PM
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Originally posted by wakeech
and as for your claimed performance on that Impala, a girl i dated about uh.... a year and a half ago had one as a courtesy car while her other one was in the shop (oh, the fun that can be had in a canyonous back seat
), and just drank gas like there was a hole in the tank...
and as for your claimed performance on that Impala, a girl i dated about uh.... a year and a half ago had one as a courtesy car while her other one was in the shop (oh, the fun that can be had in a canyonous back seat
), and just drank gas like there was a hole in the tank...
On the other hand, it won't be paid off for another two and a half years and it doesn't have a tachometer so I can only guess at the RPMs. I can afford to replace it if it falls apart, but I'd rather save my money for my midlife crisis car :D. I don't push the car very hard at all.
Maybe the loaner you got was poorly tuned. Maybe your girlfriend took advantage of the fact it was a loaner car and floored it at every stoplight
.
02-23-2004, 04:26 PM
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Originally posted by MikeW
21/32, and GM is still lying with those numbers. Seeing as the grand am (that uses the 4t45 instead of 4t65) get 20/29. but the gearing is taller, so maybe 20/30 is realistic with the 3400.
21/32, and GM is still lying with those numbers. Seeing as the grand am (that uses the 4t45 instead of 4t65) get 20/29. but the gearing is taller, so maybe 20/30 is realistic with the 3400.
02-24-2004, 04:13 AM
#106
Originally posted by zerobanger
I cant wait to race a GTO at the drag strip, its really gonna FUNNY.
I cant wait to race a GTO at the drag strip, its really gonna FUNNY.
You talking stock v's stock?
The stock LS1 powered Monaro's and Commodore's (the sedan) will just crack a 13 second quarter, if they are very lucky.
These are detuned compared to the LS1 they put in the GTO.
I have had plenty of races with my mates and their LS1's. In fact I was a ring in in my '8 at a private LS1 day.
The RX-8 will get a better 60', and might even win the race to 1/3 or 1/2 track distance, then the power of the V8 will just drive staight by you. I know. I have experienced it. And I have been an LS1 owner as well.
Push-rods=GM=****
Get a grip. Exotic does not mean reliable. We have a 24 hour race here that the Monaro (albeit with a 427 CID version) has won the last couple of years. Most of the exotic competitive Ferraris and Lambo's etc. break and drop out - often early on.
The build quality of the GTO and the other Holdens is very good. They are very comfortable and enjoyable cars to drive. Speaking from experience, here.
Cheers,
Hymee.
02-24-2004, 01:15 PM
#108
Baller,
I never said all the GM products are good. I never said the fit/finish/interior was world class, but I did say the build quality of the Australian built Holden products, such as the GTO, is very good.
Outback?? Try not to get personal, mate. I gave an objective view, based on actual experiences. I don't think ownership of a primarily military vehicle is representitive of GM products. You categorize all GM vehicles based on your bad experience with one vehicle that is totally unrelated to the vehicles in question. GM has lots of brands, built in many different factories in different parts of the world.
Are you going to say all cars that use metal chassis and body panels are crap just because F1 uses carbon fibre? I'll be immature for one moment, and suggest that F1 cars are not even street legal or roadworthy. Your comparison is flawed.
Cheers,
Hymee.
I never said all the GM products are good. I never said the fit/finish/interior was world class, but I did say the build quality of the Australian built Holden products, such as the GTO, is very good.
Outback?? Try not to get personal, mate. I gave an objective view, based on actual experiences. I don't think ownership of a primarily military vehicle is representitive of GM products. You categorize all GM vehicles based on your bad experience with one vehicle that is totally unrelated to the vehicles in question. GM has lots of brands, built in many different factories in different parts of the world.
Are you going to say all cars that use metal chassis and body panels are crap just because F1 uses carbon fibre? I'll be immature for one moment, and suggest that F1 cars are not even street legal or roadworthy. Your comparison is flawed.
Cheers,
Hymee.
02-24-2004, 01:31 PM
#109
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Originally posted by Baller
Formula 1 engines have not used push-rods forvever.....pushrods are cheap and so are GM products (junk).
edit: I went and looked at the the GTO and was very surprized on how well made the interior was (perhaps the best effort for GM thus far)....the rest of the car however was pure ****.
Formula 1 engines have not used push-rods forvever.....pushrods are cheap and so are GM products (junk).
edit: I went and looked at the the GTO and was very surprized on how well made the interior was (perhaps the best effort for GM thus far)....the rest of the car however was pure ****.
If the GTO engine sucks so bad then I wonder why the new LS2 engine has a significant specific power to weight advantage over the Mazda Renesis? Or why are there so many peeps replacing their blown 50,000 mile FD RX-7 engines with LS-1 engines? Or why the 400 hp LS-2 engine is more fuel efficient than any other 400 hp engine in the world? I really hate to see how the new Z06 engine will compete in about 18 months.
02-24-2004, 07:29 PM
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First of all because of the compromises used to make the Renesis. Remember they scaled it down from what it could be to make the car more conservative. I wonder if a titanium and ceramic tri rotor turbo Renesis would stack up against an LS-1 or 2. That would make it a bit more expensive, because the Renisis has a low cost of labor, that is an advantage of the rotary engine. I don't know anybody w/ a FD RX7 that has replaced their rotary w/ a LS1. The tuneability and fun is what makes the RX7 better than a corvette, IMO. As of the LS engines they are some of the best engines ever made, I give the car props for that. But i don't care how good the engine is when the transmission goes on me 3 times as on a previous gm car. It only lasted 50k mi. The expensive repairs were more expensive than just buying a new reliable car. Oh yeah well the GTO is vintage muscle car, it only goes strait. I think that it has a solid rear axel even 
. Well lets just say that the suspension is extremely obsolete. Give me the price difference a coumparably equipped 8 and GTO and i will b able 2 make the 8 faster.
. Well lets just say that the suspension is extremely obsolete. Give me the price difference a coumparably equipped 8 and GTO and i will b able 2 make the 8 faster.
02-24-2004, 11:48 PM
#111
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Originally posted by Hymee
Baller,
I never said all the GM products are good. I never said the fit/finish/interior was world class, but I did say the build quality of the Australian built Holden products, such as the GTO, is very good.
Outback?? Try not to get personal, mate. I gave an objective view, based on actual experiences. I don't think ownership of a primarily military vehicle is representitive of GM products. You categorize all GM vehicles based on your bad experience with one vehicle that is totally unrelated to the vehicles in question. GM has lots of brands, built in many different factories in different parts of the world.
Are you going to say all cars that use metal chassis and body panels are crap just because F1 uses carbon fibre? I'll be immature for one moment, and suggest that F1 cars are not even street legal or roadworthy. Your comparison is flawed.
Cheers,
Hymee.
Baller,
I never said all the GM products are good. I never said the fit/finish/interior was world class, but I did say the build quality of the Australian built Holden products, such as the GTO, is very good.
Outback?? Try not to get personal, mate. I gave an objective view, based on actual experiences. I don't think ownership of a primarily military vehicle is representitive of GM products. You categorize all GM vehicles based on your bad experience with one vehicle that is totally unrelated to the vehicles in question. GM has lots of brands, built in many different factories in different parts of the world.
Are you going to say all cars that use metal chassis and body panels are crap just because F1 uses carbon fibre? I'll be immature for one moment, and suggest that F1 cars are not even street legal or roadworthy. Your comparison is flawed.
Cheers,
Hymee.
I'm just jacking ya.
02-24-2004, 11:51 PM
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Originally posted by babylou
Why would you use F1 cars as an example of technology. Production autos are much more advanced than any race autos. If you don't know this then you don't know jack squat about autos.
If the GTO engine sucks so bad then I wonder why the new LS2 engine has a significant specific power to weight advantage over the Mazda Renesis? Or why are there so many peeps replacing their blown 50,000 mile FD RX-7 engines with LS-1 engines? Or why the 400 hp LS-2 engine is more fuel efficient than any other 400 hp engine in the world? I really hate to see how the new Z06 engine will compete in about 18 months.
Why would you use F1 cars as an example of technology. Production autos are much more advanced than any race autos. If you don't know this then you don't know jack squat about autos.
If the GTO engine sucks so bad then I wonder why the new LS2 engine has a significant specific power to weight advantage over the Mazda Renesis? Or why are there so many peeps replacing their blown 50,000 mile FD RX-7 engines with LS-1 engines? Or why the 400 hp LS-2 engine is more fuel efficient than any other 400 hp engine in the world? I really hate to see how the new Z06 engine will compete in about 18 months.
WTF........production autos are more advanced than F1...I think not
Last edited by Baller; 03-04-2004 at 09:59 PM.
02-24-2004, 11:55 PM
#113
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Originally posted by Baller
WTF........production autos are more advanced than F1,,,,are you out of your Fuc*ing mind.....
I thought they had schools in Houston.
WTF........production autos are more advanced than F1,,,,are you out of your Fuc*ing mind.....
I thought they had schools in Houston.
fwiw, it's true that production automobiles are far more advanced.
02-25-2004, 12:03 AM
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Originally posted by wakeech
take it easy there Baller, you're losing here big. watch how you tread, stop being so hostile.
fwiw, it's true that production automobiles are far more advanced.
take it easy there Baller, you're losing here big. watch how you tread, stop being so hostile.
fwiw, it's true that production automobiles are far more advanced.
F1 cars are the most advanced in the world period.......
Last edited by Baller; 03-04-2004 at 09:59 PM.
02-25-2004, 01:50 AM
#115
Originally posted by Rotarian_SC
I think that it has a solid rear axel even. Well lets just say that the suspension is extremely obsolete. Give me the price difference a comparably equipped 8 and GTO and i will b able 2 make the 8 faster.
I think that it has a solid rear axel even
. Well lets just say that the suspension is extremely obsolete. Give me the price difference a comparably equipped 8 and GTO and i will b able 2 make the 8 faster.
Some of my mates have 11s LS1 powered VX & VU Commodores, and I have not got under a 15.0s run in the '8. Admittedly I might not know how to drive
Hehehe. Considering the base car costs between 35 - 50k, and the RX-8 costs 60k here, then they already have a start. Granted, these are cars spec'ed lower then the GTO. The closest GTO equivalent here (Which is a HSV GTO Coupe, BTW) is 80k.Some pics:
Holden Commodore SS:
Holden Monaro:
HSV GTO Coupe:
BTW - How much does a RX-8 and a GTO cost Stateside?
Cheers,
Hymee.
02-25-2004, 07:15 AM
#116
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Originally posted by Hymee
Considering the base car costs between 35 - 50k, and the RX-8 costs 60k here, then they already have a start. Granted, these are cars spec'ed lower then the GTO. The closest GTO equivalent here (Which is a HSV GTO Coupe, BTW) is 80k.
Hymee.
Considering the base car costs between 35 - 50k, and the RX-8 costs 60k here, then they already have a start. Granted, these are cars spec'ed lower then the GTO. The closest GTO equivalent here (Which is a HSV GTO Coupe, BTW) is 80k.
Hymee.
Base price of RX8- 27k. Got mine for about 29k
Base price of GTO I think it is around 32k.
02-25-2004, 01:15 PM
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Originally posted by Baller
It must be the crack your smoking!!!!!
F1 cars are the most advanced in the world period.......
It must be the crack your smoking!!!!!
F1 cars are the most advanced in the world period.......
02-25-2004, 08:32 PM
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Patton also said if everyone is thinking alike the no one is thinking!
I have N0 hostilty against anyone.......Well maybe the Ex-wife
Sorry!!!!
I have N0 hostilty against anyone.......Well maybe the Ex-wife
Sorry!!!!
Last edited by Baller; 03-04-2004 at 09:44 PM.
02-25-2004, 11:49 PM
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Originally posted by Hymee
Some of my mates have 11s LS1 powered VX & VU Commodores, and I have not got under a 15.0s run in the '8. Admittedly I might not know how to drive Hehehe.
Some of my mates have 11s LS1 powered VX & VU Commodores, and I have not got under a 15.0s run in the '8. Admittedly I might not know how to drive
Hehehe.
02-26-2004, 01:45 AM
#120
Richard. Amazing. How are you old pal?
You must have had been listening when I said about the stock LS1 cracking the 13's! Yes - I was talking about you - how could I forget! And now you are famous around the world!!!
So - your first post, on the RX8 forum, and it is a wise crack, with no contributions to technical knowledge or anything otherwise useful. It has to be the real Richard!
Good to see you migrated your trademarks to this place. Just a few more posts and you will be able to put one of those great mug shots up for the world to see.
Cheers,
Hymee.
You must have had been listening when I said about the stock LS1 cracking the 13's! Yes - I was talking about you - how could I forget! And now you are famous around the world!!!
So - your first post, on the RX8 forum, and it is a wise crack, with no contributions to technical knowledge or anything otherwise useful. It has to be the real Richard!
Good to see you migrated your trademarks to this place. Just a few more posts and you will be able to put one of those great mug shots up for the world to see.
Cheers,
Hymee.
02-26-2004, 06:10 PM
#121
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Originally posted by Hymee
Richard. Amazing. How are you old pal?
You must have had been listening when I said about the stock LS1 cracking the 13's! Yes - I was talking about you - how could I forget! And now you are famous around the world!!!
So - your first post, on the RX8 forum, and it is a wise crack, with no contributions to technical knowledge or anything otherwise useful. It has to be the real Richard!
Good to see you migrated your trademarks to this place. Just a few more posts and you will be able to put one of those great mug shots up for the world to see.
Cheers,
Hymee.
Richard. Amazing. How are you old pal?
You must have had been listening when I said about the stock LS1 cracking the 13's! Yes - I was talking about you - how could I forget! And now you are famous around the world!!!
So - your first post, on the RX8 forum, and it is a wise crack, with no contributions to technical knowledge or anything otherwise useful. It has to be the real Richard!
Good to see you migrated your trademarks to this place. Just a few more posts and you will be able to put one of those great mug shots up for the world to see.
Cheers,
Hymee.
Yup, famous. Who'd a thunk it 20 year ago?
OK. Tech knowledge:
1. Mags look better painted black.
2. A stock LS1 (with painted mags) will always beat a stock RX8 (with or without painted mags) over the 1/4 mile.
3. A loud exhaust is ALWAYS better than a quite one.
4. Dogs noses are wet and cold so they don't burn other dog's bums when they sniff them.
