Lufa

Wow, I don't understand why it is so conservative looking. I guess I am not in thier target audience, I wonder what demographic that appeals too.

rjenk

Funny, I still think that the new GTO design is more of what the Grand Prix should have looked like instead of what was done. My wife had a Grand Prix the year they changed to the previous body style. Back then the styling was nice but the interior...plastic city.

Sorry but after my experience with GM and Ford (even though they own Mazda), I will never have another car produced by either...no quality and blah interiors.

FamilyGuy

According to Consumer Reports and JD Powers GM has almost caught up with Toyota (the industry leader) in reliability. So if a GM model strikes you fancy, bad reliability is not necessarily guaranteed.

On the other hand, most of the auto review magazines and websites agree with you that Ford and GM use cheap interior materials.

PoorCollegeKid

The GTO most definitely does not have better handling than the F-bodies, but it's interior design and space blows them away. Anything powertrain oriented in the F-bodies (engine, clutch, tranny) were pretty much bullet proof, it was the little things that broke on them (power windows, squeaks and rattles galore). That's why they cost so little in comparison to the performance that you can get out of them, they were pretty much just cheap shells thrown around a good engine and suspension. The GTO costs more because it's nicer, roomier, and more comfortable as well as having all of the "little things" done right.

CriticalMass

its horrid. It looks like a BEEFED up cavalier. haha im glad my 35k went to the 8

CM

SDFLY

Can't agree more. Just viewed yesterday at the SD Auto show and was really hopeing the "real" thing looked better in the flesh, to my dismay, it did not - very very plain looking and in my opinion a disgrace to the GTO badge (in appearence). The real star of the show (largest crowds) was around the new Ford GT, simply awesome looking.

Air Force RX8

While I agree that there are great things about the new GTO, I cannot get past the depressing look of the car. The real GTOs were mean looking and just plain awesome. I think Pontiac has missed the mark on the aesthetic looks that should go with this car's heritage. The guage cluster is nice, but it is the only thing in the interior I saw worth commenting on. This looks like a beefed up Sunfire to me and nothing more. But hey for my opinion, it makes my 8 look so much better...:D

PetersonPeleRx8

You guys all still need to hear the clip of the GTO running that is up on the Pontiac site.

Everyone talks about how ugly and worthless the car looks which I completely agree with... but you all need to hear the clip anyways cause it sound so damb awesome!

So everyone go check it out... it even shows the car accelerating on the dials and the speedo!

FamilyGuy

In another forum we were discussing it. The original GTO was a special trim of the Pontiac Le Mans.

GM should have taken the GTO, ripped out the LS1, dropped in the supercharged V6 from the Bonneville (260 horsepower, 280 torque), named it the Le Mans, and sold it for less than $25K as a competitor to the Mustang GT. Then, when they had a decent appearance package to go with the V8, put it together and call it the GTO.

Air Force RX8

I've seen a lot of old POS cars that sound great, but look butt ugly and I'm just as impressed with them as I am the new goat. Either way it has to look the part and this style does not IMHO. They had an awesome looking Trans Am when they decided to kill it along with the Firebird, so how can they think that this body is the way to go?

monaroCountry

The old gto were good cars, but were not exceptionally different from other cars of its day i.e. 1969 Pontiac LeMans= 1969 Pontiac GTO= 1969 Pontiac Bonneville. What made the old pontiac gto a legend was its power, not its bland looks.

The new GTO (monaro) have always been a muscle car, ppl ignore comments such as "the gto has no muscle car heritage". The monaro is a name synonymous with muscle in Australia, ever since the 70's. However Australian muscle were a blend of American power and European handling. The best muscle cars were in fact from Australia (monaro and gtho phase 3 and 4).

As for the value of the new gto, name another car (brand new) with interior and handling dynamics like those offered in bmw's and mb, with the power of a vette, and with usable and comfortable seating (for 31-33K). CAN’T THINK OF ANY?
:D :D :D :D :D :D

visitor

What's not to like about the GTO? LS1 soul, sexy Morona body (much preferred then classic Pontiac designs, they never looked wide enough), obvious euro interior influence, 4 seats, haul's ***. It does everything it was designed to do very well. Looks and sounds like a winner to me.

I see this a step down from the CTSv, in a good way.

FamilyGuy

How good is the interior and the sound system? It will be that, and to a lesser extent the crash protection and reliability, that will determine this car.

I mean, you can get something just as fast with the Evo or the WRX STI. Those are also AWD. So the GTO will have to offer a significantly better interior in order to be worth the extra few $K over either of those.

(Granted, most fans of big V8 sports cars do not cross shop with turbocharged 4 cylinders and vice versa.)

zerobanger

why did you link a picture of a grand am?

camaro194

I dont know why Pontiac would drop a car like the Firebird and make a car like the GTO. I mean, come on, atleast the Firebird looked like a real sports car! The GTO looks just like the Grand Prix/Grand Am. I dunno...good thing the GM family discount now applies towards Ford, which in turn gets me a discount on Mazda too... :D Cause the only NEW GM car that I would consider is the Corvette, but thats just a little too much.

Paradox

I thought about a GTO. But my wife hated the way it looked, and both of us loved everything about the 8. I'm happy I got the 8, the better car.

Baller

PUSH RODS.........like Nascar....Yuuuuuuuuck

visitor

what's wrong with push rod?

FamilyGuy

I'm under the impression that OHC is considered more efficient and easier to engineer for performance applications. OHV is prevalent, but that's largely because it has momentum from being around for so long. They can re-use old parts, most existing mechanics know how to work with it, they don't have to change manufacturing setups, etc...

Baller

Read..cheaper,
Only nascar uses push rod engines........

Baller

OHV=overhead valve= Nascar
SOHC= single overhead cam=better
DOHC=double overhead cam=better yet
Wankel rotary=no valves or cams=best

wakeech

ya Baller, i used to be ignorant too.

actually the invention of the pushrod engine (the Chevy small block, which at the time replaced the old POS "Stovebolt" straight 6) was a real feat, and outclassed just about everything made in America, most notably the Ford Flathead V8.

the advantages of the under-head-cam, pushrod configuration: can have enormous displacement in a small & light engine and low centre of gravity (in comparison to overhead cam V8's).

the Chev 5.7L is a good couple of hundred pounds lighter than the Ford 4.6L (the DOHC motor), makes more power, and is a few inches overall shorter.

F1 rules the planet, but F1 isn't DOHC. F1 is also an unreality... hundreds of millions of dollars to go around in circles (hmmm... circles?? oh yeah, like Nascar, but with a few other bends in it... :p).
stop trying to pretend like you know better when you don't.

and just for the record, i'm not a muscle guy, my favourite engine configurations are the bi-rotor wankel, and the DOHC straight six (like the original Testa Rossa 3.0L, BMW's M3 motor, RB26DETT, etc).

for those who feel like whipping out that completely useless "hp/cc or hp/ci" metric, i'll say "shut it and show me hp/lb of engine, or hp/cubic foot of engine".
you can do a whole lot worse than a pushrod V8.


to bring this thread back on-topic, the GTO is a whale. it's not a sports car, it's just a big, boring, frumpy sedan with (ooooo!! :o) Corvette power under the hood. that's it. (note: the stick is a top-model OPTION)

Baller

F1 does not go around in circles my friend...and it does rule the planet.....check out

WWW.f1.com

wakeech

uh, yeah... guy, i used to handicap on my friend's betting site for F1... i only got the final two races of '02 done for him before the site lost popularity, but i may pick that up again for this year (seems to have had a resurgance).

and all racing is just goin' around in circles... being that i seriously plan to have a career seated in racing or high performance tuning, don't take that to mean that i don't like racing.

F1 is my favourite, but i'm saying, just because it's the most expensive doesn't mean you have to be a snob about less expensive forms of racing... it's all legitimate.

FamilyGuy

Hmmm... a few months back, I started a thread here asking why anyone uses Pushrod when DOHC is available. That section of your post is the best answer I've heard. I'm curious... why doesn't anyone use a pushrod V12 for the better balance?

The stick is technically an expensive option, but in the US if you get the 4 speed auto its poor gas mileage gets you a $2,000 gas guzzler tax. In reality, it's cheaper to get the manual.

We've been over this in the thread before. Supposedly this car will have better interior materials, more interior space, an almost useful back seat, handling as least as good as the Camaro, and at least average reliability. All of those add up to something at least worth consideration as a Mustang alternative. Me? I'd take one.... right after I got my RX8, my Elise, and my 2005 Mustang GT :D.