:rant: Dude. Why you keep baggin' on my ride?!?!

Hater.

I strongly disagree with this line of thinking. Not to say that a powerful and tossable RWD coupe isn't a blast to drive, but "ultimate driving pleasure" is a lot of things to a lot of different people. For me it's about feedback and less about drivetrain. Ideally I'd like a rear-biased AWD setup (like the ATESSA drivetrain in my Infiniti FX) in a 3000lb compact platform, but it's more about overall ride than the number of axles that move it.

BTW...Saturn I own an '05 Evo VIII

Thanks for the article. One bit that has me worried is the following comment:

Similarly, even in S-Sport, the most aggressive of TC-SST’s three modes, it refuses to pull as screaming a downshift as you would and won’t hold a gear when you back off to let someone pass.

Seems as though even in S-Sport you don't have full control of the shifts. This is perplexing as most, if not all, tiptronic-style shifters allow you to select a gear and run it all the way up to redline and hold it there, bouncing off the rev-limiter, until something blows up. Maybe since the shifts are so fast it won't matter all that much, but that's still quite a disappointment.

If it makes you feel any better your car would beat my car in everything including a pumpkin carving content. The GTO is a great car if you want a quasi-luxurious sedan that goes very fast in a straight line. Just not for me.

i found evo just too easy to drive. with evo, driver just becomes an on/off switch with steering wheel, gas pedal, and brakes. you'll be one fast driver, but unless i'm paying my bills based on my lap times, i think driving an evo can become quite an empty experience.

Why I think that's nicest thing I've ever heard about a GTO on this forum (ok, by a non-Rx8-to-GTO-convert). Might go into my sig.

What they described the SST as doing is more the norm than the exception. Besides the DSG just about every other semi-auto is obtrusive in some way.

i wonder what fully controls the tc-sst and if a pcm aftermarket flash (if it controls it) would solve the downshift problem, or even program a better launch control feature.

Since the SST has been delayed I would imagine it's because Mitsubishi is still sorting out bugs. I will never buy an SST Evo, but I imagine the production models will be better than the pre-production cars that have had some issues. Also, I'm sure the ECU controls it and tuners will be tinkering with shift points and controls of the tranny in no time.

That may be true for the new style semi-manuals (DSG, SMG, and SST), but it's definitely not true for the older style tiptronics (torque converter style w/ paddles). I've driven quite a few cars like this, including the AT RX-8 as well as the one I currently own, and they all will let you stay in a gear forever unless you are going too slow that you'll lug the engine (at that point it will downshift). They will never upshift for you and let you bounce off the rev limiter all you want. The only other "obtrusive" thing they do is not allow you to downshift into a gear that will put you well over redline.

It makes no sense to me at all that they would have three separate modes for the SST and yet one of them isn't "let me do all the work". I don't mind if it keeps me from downshifting well past redline or if it downshifts when I come to a stop or something, but everything else I want to control. From my experience that's how they work currently and it would be disappointing to see that the fancy new DSG/SMG/SST style worked differently.

more parts more problems....no pistons no valves no problems....

Yeah... Would you like to buy some land in Florida?

hahaha.... you of all people should know the amount of alphabet soup of sensors in that Lancer to compensate for a compromised sedan design. :wink2:

why mimic RWD with various kuldgy drivetrain? If you want a great driving experience get a proper front-engine RWD sports car. If you want a safe car get an AWD that can go on all terrain. Keep it simple.
However I agree that "ultimate driving pleasure" is different amongst people. Hence we have folks who loves nothing but the neck snapping acceleration straightline experience, while some prefers rounding VIR V-Max and yet some prefers how a well balanced car communicates with the driver and then there are the point-n-squirters.

Exactly. Empty experience. These cars are damn efficient in dispatching all manners of road that it exhibits some sort of Playstation experience. In the end, to me driving pleasure has to be a connection with a finely balanced sports car with as little as possible electronic doo-hickey.

All the electronics in the world won't help a "compromised" design handle well. The Evo handles well because of a great suspension, chassis, and years of improving on an existing design. I defy you to find one credible source that doesn't gush about how well connected the Evo is to the driver or mentions that you can feel any interference from the electronics on the car.

It's definitely an interesting debate but would be better discussed in another thread...

https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...hlight=AWD+RWD

Yes the EVO was built on a fantastic platform.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...shi_Lancer.jpg


mmmkay... try again. U're too easy.

p*wned, but good!! ROFL!

^ evo actually is a different chassis and floorplan, it just has to be based on a company road carto compete in wrc

^^ "The Evolution VII was based on the larger Lancer Cedia platform and as a result gained more weight over the Evolution VI, but Mitsubishi made up for this with multiple important chassis tweaks." -- Wikipedia

I am sure with enough tweaks a homely Ford Focus can be used to bitch slap lots of sports cars too. Oh wait! Ford did convert the Focus to be a Rally Car. Hmm.... But this is getting OT. STi vs EVO X.

This whole argument is utterly useless. People go around exclaiming from the rooftops about how "pure" one car is and how "compromised" another one is to make it seem like they're one of the elect few who truly understands what driving is all about. Driving is what you make of it and everyone is out for something different. Many would look at your RX-8 and say that it has a soft suspension with an LSD that ruins the true experience. It's all relative and going around offering unsolicited criticism of a car only serves to highlight that you're an insecure person.

Go away or stop being useless.

The similarities between a Lancer and a Lancer Evo are few and far between. However, it's pretty remarkable that Mitsubishi was able to build a car that is widely regarded as one of the best handling and best drivers cars in the world from such humble beginnings isn't it? Too bad your "pure sportscar" doesn't have a chance in hell to keep up with one... But congrats on your pretty interior with all those cool rotary accents and the pureness of your proper front engine RWD car.

I still don't think you understand, the chassis is different, in addition to the suspension geometry and platform lay out. The major tweaks that mitsu made is extra spot welds to connect the body to the chassis and increase its rigity.

You stated that its the same chassis when it isn't, then quoted wiki incorrectly to defend your original statement.

Perrin has their new STI and has dynoed it already.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1405260

Looks like the tune may be a big rough and similar to the '07, but for a 5th gear pull on their dyno that's pretty good overall. No where near what an Evo IX makes HP wise, but that is to be expected.

Think this compromised sedan design has enough ultimate driving pleasure for ya?

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=x3E3TmJd28c

Re-read Ford Focus analogy. Given enough money I'm sure Chevy can turn a Cobalt into a super car slayer too.
Oooh... reverting back to default "My car is better than yours" mode. I was just wondering how many posts before this comes out. So that means I spend more time driving around mountain roads instead of filming for youtube at every traffic light.
I left paper racing back in kindergarten. ;)
Get the STi. At least you can still claim that the car's competing effectively in the WRC.

Can you blame the car companies though? They are cashing in on the name and the recognition. Soften that baby up, add creature comforts, make it quieter, and they will make more money. Enthusiasts like us don't make car companies rich, they can only make them poor. The general half enthusiast/consumer makes them $$$, so you're right, the cars are gonna sell better, which is the goal. They were purpose built niche cars, but now it's time to cash in on the names a bit, and make the cars sell better. The rawness of these cars deterred many people from buying. In the end it's all about $$$$$.

With that said, I look at these cars as daily drivers only, not fun sports cars, so softening them up is right up my alley. I really want the new STI!!!!!!!!!! Perfect daily driver/ winter beater for me, and if I can afford it, I'll replace this Speed 6 for one next year, or the year after.

I got my S2000 like you have your EVO, only you use it daily. :)

Got a chance to sit in a couple 2008 STI models. The 1st was a red base model. The other one was white on gold BBS rims with navigation. I know this kind of phrase has been beaten to death, but it looks a helluva lot better in person. The dealership I was at sells both Mazdas and Subarus and on the showroom floor was the new STI and a new Mazdaspeed 3. I've always liked the lines of the MS3 but, side by side, the STI just looks smoother, lower to the ground, more aggressive and much wider. The rear of the car (minus those goofy tail lights) with the quad exhaust and 8.5" rims looks mean as hell too. There is also easily more room for wider rims/tires. The front of the car is sorta bland. Maybe that's not the worst thing in the world when it comes to attracting attention, but I'm not in love with it. There is however ample room for a nice FMIC upgrade.

Inside the car I can say that I was honestly impressed. It's not quite on par with the setup in my wife's Infiniti FX35 but the dash layout is clean and simple, the steering wheel is telescopic, the gauges are attractive and the controls on the steering wheel are intuitive. The touchscreen navigation system is the same setup my buddy has on his '08 Tribeca (which he loves). The AUX allows for an iPod and apparently there is a bluetooth feature available shortly from the factory. The sales guy knew nothing though and it was obvious. When will they learn that BS is for Accord and Camry buyers. Performance car shoppers have forgotten more about said car then most salesmen ever knew.

One observation I had is that the STI seats don't have the kind of aggressive bolstering I'd hoped for. I'm 6'3" and 230lbs too so I'm not quite sure who Subaru was building them for. Only a spirited drive through the foothills can confirm this but I'm not too optimistic. The JDM Recaros are supposed to be nice, I hear. :)

One final thing for anybody who refuses to ever consider a hatch. I used to be one of you. Then I started seeing them win rallies all over the world. So what. Then I got married. So what again. Then we had a baby. Sold. The shear amount of crap that can be thrown in the back of this thing is mind boggling...strollers, toys, their friend's strollers and toys, pets, soccer balls, ice chests filled with beer and steak, etc. Put down the back seat and this thing becomes outright cavernous, probably 75% as big as the FX35 with the seats down. Anyhow the real test comes when I can finally drive it.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/..._and_dyno.html motortrend has an article up

the Sub has a ugly front.

The Evo is actually looking good now. Has better interior than the past.

From what I've read and seen on video the new EVO is faster on the track.

I vote EVO.

I'll wait till I can drive them both myself. I like the utility of the STi and I'm not sure I want to pay 40k for a Mitsu. (The GSR looks like it will get crappier interior)

I used to think the new Imprezas looked like Hyundai cars... fast forward a few months to now, I think it's very agressive looking and sexy.

a little off topic but here is YouTube. 08 STi vs 08 NismoZ.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=V5zXyPqMj3U

it's a driver's race. neck and neck.

Not exactly...

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...1407471&page=9

That's disappointing for the Evo to come in at 5.2 sec for 0-60. I just can't imagine plunking down that kind of coin for a 5.0+ car. I guess there's always next year.

what are you talking about? i just read the whole thread and it did not say one thing about anything regarding to "not exactly". it just shows you a picture and the same link I posted. ???

The guy driving the STI is admittedly a novice. With identical skillsets behind the wheel of each car, there's zero chance of that 350Z Nismo hanging with the STI.

so do you know the guy's skill set in the NISMO?

Supposedly he's been out on the track a few times. That's all I know. The STi belongs to a shop called Harmon Automotive IIRC. They have a few threads on IWSTI and NASIOC because their '08 STi was one of the 1st in the country.