Handling question
03-16-2006, 10:41 PM
#26
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Originally Posted by lowrider
Lennon: I don't think I made my point clear. I was saying that torque for most cars now (compared with the GT) becomes relative very tame (even the skylines I have been in, never mind our 8.)
The new 2006 Ford GT (not the 40) is on a different planet all together. I have not been in too many cars with such torque & fast; last one was a 5.6(?)litre Camaro. But whats remarkable about the GT is how it just hugs/feels the contours of the roads... much like driving a go-kart. So I am not sure its good for city driving!! But imagine it on Sepang!
The new 2006 Ford GT (not the 40) is on a different planet all together. I have not been in too many cars with such torque & fast; last one was a 5.6(?)litre Camaro. But whats remarkable about the GT is how it just hugs/feels the contours of the roads... much like driving a go-kart. So I am not sure its good for city driving!! But imagine it on Sepang!
Last edited by lennon; 03-16-2006 at 10:44 PM.
03-17-2006, 04:42 AM
#27
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You can buy a expensive go kart now - the Lotus Elise.
The GT40 was custom made for the sole purpose of performance and is in quite a different league compared to the 8. But i am sure with a big budget and careful planning, the 8 can be made to be quite comparable.
The GT40 was custom made for the sole purpose of performance and is in quite a different league compared to the 8. But i am sure with a big budget and careful planning, the 8 can be made to be quite comparable.
03-17-2006, 05:39 AM
#28
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Originally Posted by rotomotor
Hi,
Aragosta coil-overs for RX8s have F 11kg/mm and R 4kg/mm springs, if I'm not mistaken, compared to some lowish rates in the stock springs (3kg/mm?). This suggests that the choice is intended to reduce drastically the oversteering tendency of the 8's (I'm not sure if this is typical of the 8's). As such, the coil-overs will be good for track use as most tracks are expected to be not bumpy and its turns would demand a good set-up (handling).
On the highways and streets it's a different story. the bumps will throw a stiff suspension all over as you encounter them. In the wet it is even more dangerous and stiff springs have less compliance to "smooth over" the bumps, making the ride harsh.
Therefore imho, yes, stock or soft set-ups are better for highway driving than the Aragostas, especially, at speeds over 200kph. Having said that, if the highway has many sharp turns, such as, the way to Mersing to Kuantan, a slightly uprated springing may be a better choice if driving at high speed.
Sorry, if I confuse you. Cheers,
Aragosta coil-overs for RX8s have F 11kg/mm and R 4kg/mm springs, if I'm not mistaken, compared to some lowish rates in the stock springs (3kg/mm?). This suggests that the choice is intended to reduce drastically the oversteering tendency of the 8's (I'm not sure if this is typical of the 8's). As such, the coil-overs will be good for track use as most tracks are expected to be not bumpy and its turns would demand a good set-up (handling).
On the highways and streets it's a different story. the bumps will throw a stiff suspension all over as you encounter them. In the wet it is even more dangerous and stiff springs have less compliance to "smooth over" the bumps, making the ride harsh.
Therefore imho, yes, stock or soft set-ups are better for highway driving than the Aragostas, especially, at speeds over 200kph. Having said that, if the highway has many sharp turns, such as, the way to Mersing to Kuantan, a slightly uprated springing may be a better choice if driving at high speed.
Sorry, if I confuse you. Cheers,
Thanks
03-17-2006, 07:34 AM
#29
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Tks, EBS. I, like many enthusiasts, had trodden the path of wasteful trial and error with after-market suspension mods. It was not that the after-market accessories were bad but the truth had always been that I was mostly ignorant. I learnt it the hard way.
Improving handling invariably entails lowering the car's c.g. and switching to better-traction tyres, hard bushes and mountings, stiffer springs and sway-bars with matching dampers. Yes, the car's handling may improve, that is, provided you know how to set them up correctly. That aside, certain things are bound to happen: bottoming and scrapping of car's underside, harsher ride, loud road noises, more vibration and accelerated wear on tyres and suspension members. So, before you splurge on the fancifully advertised "handling improvement" mods you must decide on what you really wish to achieve.
If it's purely for competition, it's simple - check how deep your pocket is
. If you intend to have the same car for both motorsports (or track use) and street driving (with occasional client passenger or fussy mother-in-law) - check how strong your (or your mother-in-law's) rump is...just kidding .
Before I continue I wish to say that I'm not trying to act like a pro - I'm not one; nor am I trying to be sarcastic, for if you know me better, I'm really never so. Pls take me just as one of you - trying to learn more...
I really think that before we spend a single dollar on any mod we should know as much as we can about driving our car. If you don't push your car beyond your own envelope of speed (in both straight line and corners) you really do not need to improve your car's stock handling. If you do push beyond (hopefully in a track environment) you have to know at that point the shortcomings of your car's handling. It would then be worth your while to find the best solution to your car's needs in order to address the shortcoming.
Stock set ups are often a good compromise between what a racer wants and the needs of the granny who uses a similar car for her supermarket trips. Assuming so, we may be able to "re-tune" the stock set up to a more sporty mode. It may be advisable to work on a budget because one can get carried away by reading too much into superlatives labelled undeservedly onto some aftermarket parts.
My two cents worth...
Improving handling invariably entails lowering the car's c.g. and switching to better-traction tyres, hard bushes and mountings, stiffer springs and sway-bars with matching dampers. Yes, the car's handling may improve, that is, provided you know how to set them up correctly. That aside, certain things are bound to happen: bottoming and scrapping of car's underside, harsher ride, loud road noises, more vibration and accelerated wear on tyres and suspension members. So, before you splurge on the fancifully advertised "handling improvement" mods you must decide on what you really wish to achieve.
If it's purely for competition, it's simple - check how deep your pocket is
. If you intend to have the same car for both motorsports (or track use) and street driving (with occasional client passenger or fussy mother-in-law) - check how strong your (or your mother-in-law's) rump is...just kidding .Before I continue I wish to say that I'm not trying to act like a pro - I'm not one; nor am I trying to be sarcastic, for if you know me better, I'm really never so. Pls take me just as one of you - trying to learn more...
I really think that before we spend a single dollar on any mod we should know as much as we can about driving our car. If you don't push your car beyond your own envelope of speed (in both straight line and corners) you really do not need to improve your car's stock handling. If you do push beyond (hopefully in a track environment) you have to know at that point the shortcomings of your car's handling. It would then be worth your while to find the best solution to your car's needs in order to address the shortcoming.
Stock set ups are often a good compromise between what a racer wants and the needs of the granny who uses a similar car for her supermarket trips. Assuming so, we may be able to "re-tune" the stock set up to a more sporty mode. It may be advisable to work on a budget because one can get carried away by reading too much into superlatives labelled undeservedly onto some aftermarket parts.
My two cents worth...
03-17-2006, 08:24 AM
#30
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Quote:
"Aragosta coil-overs for RX8s have F 11kg/mm and R 4kg/mm springs, if I'm not mistaken, compared to some lowish rates in the stock springs (3kg/mm?). This suggests that the choice is intended to reduce drastically the oversteering tendency of the 8's (I'm not sure if this is typical of the 8's). As such, the coil-overs will be good for track use as most tracks are expected to be not bumpy and its turns would demand a good set-up (handling).
On the highways and streets it's a different story. the bumps will throw a stiff suspension all over as you encounter them. In the wet it is even more dangerous and stiff springs have less compliance to "smooth over" the bumps, making the ride harsh."
nick or chia, what rotomotor said is right, u may want to try go above 200 on the rd after melaka which there quite a few short bridges with slight hump that link up the NS road, but be ensure u r ready not to oversteer your car & no family member with u, my sister nearly give me a good slap on my head from the rear seat
. For street & some track day just go for MS.
"Aragosta coil-overs for RX8s have F 11kg/mm and R 4kg/mm springs, if I'm not mistaken, compared to some lowish rates in the stock springs (3kg/mm?). This suggests that the choice is intended to reduce drastically the oversteering tendency of the 8's (I'm not sure if this is typical of the 8's). As such, the coil-overs will be good for track use as most tracks are expected to be not bumpy and its turns would demand a good set-up (handling).
On the highways and streets it's a different story. the bumps will throw a stiff suspension all over as you encounter them. In the wet it is even more dangerous and stiff springs have less compliance to "smooth over" the bumps, making the ride harsh."
nick or chia, what rotomotor said is right, u may want to try go above 200 on the rd after melaka which there quite a few short bridges with slight hump that link up the NS road, but be ensure u r ready not to oversteer your car & no family member with u, my sister nearly give me a good slap on my head from the rear seat
. For street & some track day just go for MS.
Last edited by tems900; 03-17-2006 at 08:28 AM.
03-17-2006, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by lowrider
Aiyah Lennon.... I don't think you know much about the GT or the GT-40 for that matter. The -40 won the Le Mans three or four times in a row so I would hardly classify it as your typical American (straight line) "muscle car" unless you consider the Ferrari or Lambo as a typical muscle car then? AC Cobra?
The GT's performance on TopGear and by Stig was so good, Clarkson bought one. It was #7 on its contest on par with the M.B SLR Mclaren...btw. the RX8 came in at #45. I am sure most of the cars would also do well on Sepang.
My original point regarding the GT was that I wish the RX rides like the Ford. Like a go-kart.
The GT's performance on TopGear and by Stig was so good, Clarkson bought one. It was #7 on its contest on par with the M.B SLR Mclaren...btw. the RX8 came in at #45. I am sure most of the cars would also do well on Sepang.
My original point regarding the GT was that I wish the RX rides like the Ford. Like a go-kart.
03-17-2006, 09:20 AM
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Bravo!
Originally Posted by rotomotor
If you don't push your car beyond your own envelope of speed (in both straight line and corners) you really do not need to improve your car's stock handling. If you do push beyond (hopefully in a track environment) you have to know at that point the shortcomings of your car's handling. It would then be worth your while to find the best solution to your car's needs in order to address the shortcoming.
03-17-2006, 10:03 AM
#33
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Btw... Did anyone notice the front bonnet of the car starts to rattle when u hit 235km/h ? I left off the throttle them (FEAR)... I guess, i'll never know the top speed of my car
03-17-2006, 10:38 AM
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Tks, I'm glad to know that out there there is at least one person (U, Mugo)who would agree with my ramblings.
I'm sure most of you are good drivers (based on my belief that it takes an able and discerning driver to choose the RX8)... and I'm sure many of you are thinking of what must you do to your car's handling to reduce your lap times by a few seconds.
Driving the RX8 along the winding Old Thomson Road at a brisk pace, I found that its stock suspension seemed to have a pretty high threshold of handling. I don't have the opportunity to try it at Sepang race track, so I don't know how much more I can push in order to expose its limits. Perhaps it was my lack of ability and not the car.
In fact, the track is the best place to test our car's handling. When doing so it is advisable to be equipped (besides a stop-watch) with a pyrometer for recording the temperature of your tyre tread after a hot lap. This is an accurate way to know the goings-on with your set up and alignment relative to your style of driving. In this way you may then be able to find the correct suspension mod for your car.
Hope I'm not being too academic...
I'm sure most of you are good drivers (based on my belief that it takes an able and discerning driver to choose the RX8)... and I'm sure many of you are thinking of what must you do to your car's handling to reduce your lap times by a few seconds.
Driving the RX8 along the winding Old Thomson Road at a brisk pace, I found that its stock suspension seemed to have a pretty high threshold of handling. I don't have the opportunity to try it at Sepang race track, so I don't know how much more I can push in order to expose its limits. Perhaps it was my lack of ability and not the car.
In fact, the track is the best place to test our car's handling. When doing so it is advisable to be equipped (besides a stop-watch) with a pyrometer for recording the temperature of your tyre tread after a hot lap. This is an accurate way to know the goings-on with your set up and alignment relative to your style of driving. In this way you may then be able to find the correct suspension mod for your car.
Hope I'm not being too academic...
03-17-2006, 10:30 PM
#37
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Originally Posted by Mugo
dear rotomotor,
one day, I'll love to see your tyres.
one day, I'll love to see your tyres.
EmmmTyres... is that what they call it nowadays!!
Btw. I appreciate the advice you guys have given.
03-18-2006, 12:38 AM
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Hi
Thanks for the input. I am playing the devil's advocate here as I do not intend to mod my car much(except intake and possibly some minor mods, brke pads etc) but leaving the car as it is cos I'm happy with it.
To quote a friend of mine, "when in doubt, keep stock" cos u can change so many nicely thought out factory characteristics when u mod the car, and if u do not know what u want, u may end up worse off. For me I stick to cosmetic mods hehehe first and boy, its costly liao....
Tks for all the feedback !!!
Thanks for the input. I am playing the devil's advocate here as I do not intend to mod my car much(except intake and possibly some minor mods, brke pads etc) but leaving the car as it is cos I'm happy with it.
To quote a friend of mine, "when in doubt, keep stock" cos u can change so many nicely thought out factory characteristics when u mod the car, and if u do not know what u want, u may end up worse off. For me I stick to cosmetic mods hehehe first and boy, its costly liao....
Tks for all the feedback !!!
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