Enzolor

Whee..

Vancouver finally snowed... although it was a light fluffing, it was enough to cause havoc for most commuters. At first I was a bit apprehensive of driving in the snow, but I ended up spending a good 3 hours on the road just toyo'ing around town (pun intended).

The Toyo's HT handled great, lots of traction on freshly packed snow...excellent in the slush, and even in areas with ice. The car did manage to fishtail ever so slightly in the parking lots where the snow is really packed, but well within control. Zero problems going up and down hills as long as I maintained a steady pace. Drove mostly around in 2-3 gear.

Definitely MUCH much better than I expected, and surprisingly better than my old Acura EL with all-seasons.

Shamblerock

Krakadder, welcome to the cult. Looks like you will fit in nicely. Good luck with the 8.

hobbes

Sounds like everyone is mainly happy with how the 8 is doing in snow, which is a good thing. I was just wondering if anyone knows of or would be interested in a winter driving course for the 8?
________
Medical marijuana states

rotten42

Yeah, for a rear wheel drive car, it works great. Sure it slips a bit on ice. The DSC comes on quite a bit but the car NEVER has gotten out of control. I even do some tests when I'm doing about 80 km; I nail the gas. The car twitches but regains its control.

Even more impressive is how the car works when you turn the DSC off. The car has such a wonderful balance that when you throw the back end out, you can always keep it in check. I've had rear wheel drive cars that had a point of no return in regards to the back end rotating but no matter how far I throw this car sideways, it takes very little effort to bring it back.


...so winter driving so far has been fun, but I do miss reving the car to/past 7000rpm.

V_for_velocity

Got my 8 on Dec. 23. Then the snow came and the minus 35 stuff. As I suppose everybody knows, the OEM Dunlops were frightening. A 180 on a gentle curve at about 25 km/h will attest to that. So I went with 17" Blizzaks, and the difference, as they say, was night and day. These things are great, read the TireRack reviews if you don't believe me. Originally had hideous black steel rims but every time I looked at 'em, I wanted to weep, so went for some 6-spoke gunmetal grey jobs that were on sale for $150 per.

Rotator

Shamblerock,

Getting back to the burning smell - Rear TIRES!
I can't friggen believe it.
Run the car at high speed for a bit and the rear tires start to stink.

Alignment? Wear on the stock rubber was even.
Strange..... But true. The burning rubber is from the rear tires.

Handbrake Notes - When it is really cold -15C or below - the handbrake does not stay down.
There is no brake drag, just the light stays on. Stupid - I'll adjust a bit looser.

Pirelli 240 snowsport tires???
As I stated - stock 225/45/R18.
Dry/Wet - Fantastic - I'd even say sheer grip is better than the RE040 summers.
SNOW - not so fantastic - light powder and momentum is your friend.

In TO we had a bit of a dumping recently - 130mm (5") This is about the limit for clearance.
Once underway the car is fine - DSC really helps with stupid driving.
DSC off - the car is still easy to control - but in traffic DSC us ON.

What was the most suprising was the difficulty in accelerating - especially from a standstill. The slightest incline will stall this car. Hell, even flat surfaces pose a problem.

So - my recommendation if you drive in the snow regularily - run a -1 size on 17's with a more aggressive winter tread.
The Pirelli's are V rated and more suited for cold weather performance. Combine the dry road specific tread with a fairly fat footprint and you don't get much go.

Stoplight grandprix with a WRX was embarrassing. 4 times we lined up together.
All I could do is watch him leave me.

In terms of straight line - let the traction and DSC do its job. A bit disconcerning as the back end likes to WAG around but if you examine the tire tracks - never really deviates more than a few inches on each side.

Another interesting note while I am rambling - the car has a preference to turn left under acceleration. Why? With a LSD is it just the torque distribution in low traction situations that send more power to the right side?

Burning smell is the tires!

Anyone having problems with first gear engagement in the cold?

Vortex

In Minnesota we just got 6" of snow on Friday and I left the 8 in my outdoor parking lot at work while a buddy picked me up in his jeep and we went to a college hockey game. After the game went back to the lot to get my car, the car was drifted in. I cleaned the car off, let it warm up for a while and then made my way out of the parking lot.

My yoko's did just fine and I never got hung up and I never needed to cut through some of the piles or drifts. Got out onto the messy, sloppy main drag and the tires did just fine while other spun for a bit.

Only had one problem going home that night. Hit a good pile off the freeway turning onto an ave that wasn't plowed yet. Car bogged down in the deep stuff, but I downshifted and gave her some gas and she chewed through the pile pretty easy. Entire front end was packed with snow, but took it to the car wash the next day and hosed it off.

I was quite impressed with the tires after that night.

Shamblerock

Rotator, our cars are identical, really. Everything you described is exactly, i mean exactly, what I have noticed. Even the parking brake matter is identical. I have Michelin Pilots V rated. I wonder how an automatic RX8 is performing in these snowy conditions?

Anyone with an automatic care to share your snow driving winter experiences with us?

Rotator

Identical??
I have an 8" sub with velocity red fiberglass cover in the passthrough. That's gotta count for something right?

Are your michelin's stock size? Pilot Alpin's?

I must say the RX-8 vs. my awd Talon is night and day.
I would have taken the WRX out in the Talon no problem.

Snow Performance?
I was NEVER worried about not getting up a snow covered hill with the talon. Now the RX I have to ensure that I am not going to have to stop on an incline - or else I would be screwed.
I kinda miss the awd drifting that the talon provided in the snow. Nothing like going down the road at a 45 degree drift angle - full oposite lock for 100's of metres. The talon is such an understeering pig that even with 300+ HP it would take snow, or loose gravel to break the rear loose.

Iteresting about the problems - 1st gear engagement issues too?
As we are driving a mass produced production car - I would hope the problems aren't unique.

RX-8 2004 best selling car in Canada in it's class.

HeelnToe

I'll second the dry rating. Agreed, better than the summer tires I replaced, which really surprised me. And no thump-thump-thump flatspotted tires in the cold mornings, lol. Very impressive. You'd never guess you were on snow tires.

On packed snow, they're fantastic. Tons of grip, no problems at all. Fun even.

In slush or loose stuff... not so great. But that might be caused by the wide, stock size, as they tend to "float" rather than dig through to the pavement below. Get narrower 17" SnowSports, and they might do fine.

Kart Racer

i doubt the snow tires are better then the summer RE040's..Obviously the compound is softer, but i doubt the sidewall is anywhere near as stiff. I have the Pirrelli Sumitozero?? another high performance winter pirreli, and compared to stock, it feels like a van....

HeelnToe

In day-to-day ordinary use, I can't tell the difference in sidewall flex - which was my main fear when switching to snows. Sure, take it to an AutoX and you might notice it... but during enthusiastic driving on public roads, they "feel" at least as responsive as the RE040s.

While on the 040s, I always had to watch out for wheelspin when starting out on messy/wet intersections, especially when turning. Even in the dry, the rear would occasionally step out if I hit the throttle too soon in a corner.

The SnowSports shocked me when I put them on. Zero wheelspin... nada... at corners and intersections I drive every day and had grown accustomed to taking very carefully. It's a night & day difference, an entirely different car and driving experience.

On perfectly clean, smooth, dry roads in warm weather, the 040s are fantastic. But I didn't realize how skittish they were in anything less until I put on the SnowSports.

Shamblerock

Rotator, I have Michelin Pilot Alpine 225 X 50 X 17 (i beleive this is the right measurement) wi=hich is equal in diameter to the stock tires.

Cool idea with the 8" sub in the passthrough. You have to come to one of the RX8 meets and show us how it looks/sounds.

In a nutshell, the only dissapointing part of the snow tire set up is starting from zero in first on slick/heavy snow. Spins to easy for my liking. Trying to make it a habit to start in 2nd or 3rd in such conditions. The back end just swings out so easily. But once your rolling, I have no complaints.

Kart Racer

i hear ya shamblerock, getting the momentum is the hardest part sometimes....a few weeks back i got stuck in my dads Mercedes CLK....the only way i got out was to turn the TSC off, that way i could get some "spinnage"......Also just back to the tire talk, i think the tires are better then the 040's in the wet....as far as hydroplanning, but on ramps.....my snows are completely lacking....which is expected for snows....

Shamblerock

Frankly, I find they grip great in the rain and better than the potenzas and there is hardly any noticeably more body roll on or off ramps compared to the potenzas. To be honest, the Pilots seems to get better grip on dry as well and the car is far more predictable and controllable in dry with the winters. Maybe because they are new or something. I'm sure the great handling characteristics of the Pilots will fade away by next year. BTW, the Pilots are substantially quieter too!

scoop

Mine was the same in November before I put the car away. I believe is was definitely affected by the cold more than normal cable stretch issues. The dealer adjusted mine but now there is maybe just 2" of travel on the handle. I don't think this is right . . . I am betting the springs on calipers are having problems pulling the cable back because of extra friction in the sheath or something in the cold. I don't like the idea of potentially riding the back brakes all the time, doesn't help the brakes, doesn't help gas mileage and might make the smell of burning tires :-) I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't a TSB released for some sort of problem back there at some point . . .
Absolutely, it's too bad you can't go smaller. My old Audi 90 winter car weighs a similar amount to the 8 and I run super skinny 175/65/14 Hakka winter tires on it. When you concentrate all that weight on decent winter tires you get fantastic winter handling. You just can't go hog wild on dry roads as stopping distances take a big hit in particular.
You just wouldn't stand a chance. Even my Outback family cruiser which is a lot piggier and has all of 165HP would leave you behind in a cloud of snow. The AWD traction is awesome, no FWD or RWD car can come close. You can just hammer the gas from a stop light in the snow it is almost like you are driving on bare pavement, everything changes when you come to a corner though. When I step from the 8 into the Outback in summer it's like someone has removed the engine or something, it's all about traction.
I think all cars will shift hard and be clunky when it is really cold, I don't know if I would classify this as a problem if it gets better when the car warms up. It takes two men an a boy to move the sifter in my winter car when I start out below -30. What I don't like about the 8 is no synhcro for reverse, my winter car has that. Another car I had would easily match up by just pressing the clutch pedal again, the 8 is more finicky than that to the point that I have had to move forward to get into reverse and the feel when it goes in is rather vague.

Rotator

Kart Racer -

If you read the messages you will see posts from myself, Shamblerock, and HeelnToe. We all feel that the winter tires outperform the summer in GRIP.

I don't know how you can make the claim - "i doubt the snow tires are better then the summer RE040's". There is nothing to doubt. A fact is a fact. We are all driving the same car.

The hardest problem about tire comparisons is what works well on one car may not be the same on another.

The summer 140 treadwear RE040's would suggest pretty awesome traction - but really they are sheit! Even with the paltry torque on hand in the RX - I could pretend I was a muscle car on most dry - and all wet surfaces. Turn off DSC and you can drift the car on dry roads no problem. With a 225 wide tire and only 150 lb-ft, and a relatively tall 1st gear - you should not be able to do this with a real tire.

I could drive around in the summer drifting around every corner as if the road was coated in dust. With DSC on, I would see the yellow light come on frequently.
It was crazy how often the car would slide around.

Same roads with my relatively cheap Dunlop FM901's on my talon would be drama free.

Contrast this to the grip levels of the Pirelli SNOW tires - remember these are V rated - sidewall is stiff - and the difference is drastic.

Pirelli Winter tires exceed every aspect of the Summer RE040's except dynamic transitions. The tread depth and blocks on the winter tires allow more squirm - this is a fact. Do I care? Really this is only important in autocross - where there are stupid fast transitions.

If the road is dry and not full of salt powder I find it very difficult to spin the tires.
Even wet roads - the car just hooks up. The traction control light rarely comes on.

Add the fact that the WINTER 240's are quieter, they don't follow ruts in the road, and you have a winner.

I have over 18K on the summers, and now 4K on the winters. This is enough time with both sets of tires driving the same roads to come up with a real-world comparison.

There is something to be said at the level of confidence you have going into a corner and not having to worry about the tires loosing grip without warning.

If you want to drive the car like a dirt track speedway racer - the RE040's are your tire of choice.

For me - I can't wait to get new summer rubber on the car to see what it can do.

Shamblerock

I have not had that on mine. I find reverse fairly easy all the time. But I have not been out below past - 22C yet, so that cold make a difference.

It comforting to know that your winter car's gears are also stiff in the cold. But the clunking, especially when you shift fast when its cold, it just doesn't seem right. If feels like something is going to bust sometinmes.

scoop

Well you really don't want it clunking at all as bit by bit it will do damage, it really comes down to making those first few shifts very slowly until you have both moved some distance to fully lubricate the transmission and warm it up a bit. I had to be very careful with my 8 on 1-2 shifts when it was cold just before I put it away. I made a conscious effort to pop it out of first, wait a second or two and pull it into second. Synthetic oil in the transmission would probably make a big difference in terms of getting the synchros to do their job faster. I wasn't driving it in winter I and I am not keen on excessive tinkering on a car that has only 10K on it so I didn't do anything . . . I am hoping that the synchro speed and reverse issues will get better as the transmission loosens up a bit with a longer break-in. If reverse doesn't get better I will probably take it in, could simply be an adjustment issue with the shifter linkage if you are not having the same issue.

Rotator

Actually - stiff gears aren't my concern.
Until the transaxle warms - the fluid will be pretty thick. Shifting isn't a problem. A bit more effort, but I know why.

My biggest problem and concern is nuetral to first. It is hard to put the thing in first gear. Especially when cold. Alsmost as if the synchros aren't functioning.

scoop

Well I am assuming this is from a dead stop. There will be more force required than when things are warm but you shouldn't be blocked out and have to fiddle around like when things aren't lined up going into reverse. If you can't get it into first you likely have a problem of some sort and I would complain. My car never had problems going into first but it only saw -10 or -15C before the snow flew and I put it away.

If by chance you are trying to shift into first while moving, yikes, don't do it! That would be very bad for the transmission.

Rotator

Scoop - Yeah - problems neutral - first from a stop. Can't think what good it will do for me to complain. I don't think that the dealer will do anything until I just can't get the transaxle in gear. I'd like to put some GB syncro-shift in there.

Shamblerock,
Here is a link to some pics of my install. Pass Through Thread with Pics

Shamblerock

[Shamblerock,
Here is a link to some pics of my install. Pass Through Thread with Pics [/QUOTE]

Rotator, really nice job. Did you do it yourself or get a professional to do it?

Any thought about getting some kind of grill on that so it doesn'r attract outside attention (thieves)? I guess they would figure it our anyway.

Rotator

Grill on the Speaker??
Yeah - there in lies the problem.

The fibreglass cover was moulded with a 2 peice grill for the JL 8" speaker.
Turns out it was the last model 8W3 and I have clearance issues with the new generation of speaker. The throw of the cone is a lot greater. The new grill is totally different.

I was all set with the metal grill and grill cloth to make it look kind of factory. Then I found out I couldn't use it.

Am I worried about theft? Yes/No. The car is much more valuable than the system. It would suck if I some punk did a smash and grab though.

There are other issues I had with the grill cloth anyway. It wasn't audibly transparent. It would actually rap against the metal grill when playing. So I will have to come up with some way of fastening the grill cloth.

I'll figure something out - possibly source an other JL 8W3 speaker to put in there.
The nice think about a metal grill is protecting the driver from an elbow.

As for help? Box and fiberglass panel at AutoWorks Car Audio on Eastern. They still have the mould for the passthrough panel there. They also did the box. I mounted and wired the amp, and also braced the box internally, and protected the mdf with urethane.

Kandy Koated Designs did the kandy velocity red paint and final prep on the fibreglass.

It took quite a few hours.

I have attached a picture of the box, and the speaker with the metal grill. The grill looks horrible without the cloth. With the cloth - it is almost factory.

Shamblerock

Wow a lot work and planning and I know what you mean about the rapping sound. But nice job. I don't think I'm there yet.

Thanks for the details. I'm always interested in stereos.