Rotator

I doubt highly it is rubber from the tires - no way you are going to get a burning smell when it is -10C and wet on the roads. Tires are ice cold.
They are V-Rated - 240km/h - so no way at 80-120 km/h would any burning smell be evident.
This is most definately clutch.
As for my hesitation - 2nd to 3rd gear - clutch disengaged - 100% throttle - and there is a delay. Not sure if it is slipping there as the RPM's don't shoot up. Just a large lag.
I'll try getting on the accelerator sooner like you are suggesting.

Shamblerock

I also doubted at first that the smell was the tires. But its true. Don't take my word for it. Drive on the highway for 15 minutes and smell your rear tires as soon as you get off. Alternatively, drive the car hard for 5 minutes without having to burn rubber but accelerate strongly often. Then smell those puppies in the back. You may also have a clutch problem, but if the smell you have is the tires as I suggest, it will certainly be a big releif for you. Go up to them by 2-3 inches and take a wif. If its parked in a garage, it is more noticeable. But not stinking up the entire garage. So you may have clutch issues.

I have v rated as well; Michelin Pilot Alpines. The V is for the side reinforcement. The tread is really soft so it remains flexible in the cold.

I'm so sure you're tire will smell like they are burning that I am willing to buy you a drink at the next RX-8 meet in Toronto (not scheduled yet) . Let me know the result if/when you tried it.

Shogun

I also smell a burning smell as well, most noticeable when I park in the garage. I smell it even if I do not slip the clutch to get into the garage. I thought it was tires, but tire temps are dead cold. I suspect it could be the smell that Mazda/Petro Canada oil smells like when it's burned. Need to discuss this at the next meet, Shamblerock?

Rotary Titus

so THAT's what it is!!!
LOL wow... thanks for the info guys.... I was worried my clutch was going too..... but yea that burning smell does smell A LOT like the clutch!
And yea it only happens on long drives that involve highways and such

Shamblerock

Based on what I've analysed, if the winter rubber meets the road with a rear wheel drive car, you are going to have to donate some rubber to the road. I don't think the low temps elimiate the burning altogether but probably reduces it compared to hot temps. In short, IMO the better the winter tire, the better the traction, the softer the compound and the larger the donation. If you get snow in between the rubber and the road, I suspect it will wear much less.

I agree, this should be a topic for discussion at the next RX-8 meet.

Hapy new year guys.

Shamblerock

Shogun, BTW, did you open her up yet? You should be close to the end of the Shogun break in period" ! Tell me what you think while she's at WOT.

Shogun

Shamblerock, it really moves , can't wait to get the summer tires on and some warm temps to really see what it she'll do. The Hankooks W300's really grip for winter tires on dry/wet roads and seem to be pretty decent in the snow we had, heavy throttle will induce the DSC. Maybe have a meet after the Detroit Auto Show (Jan 13-23), as I plan to attend on a weekday and I can tell you how it was.

Shamblerock

Glad to hear you are happy. I know I am happy with mine. Yes, I think we should have a meet at the end of this month.

Rotator

Shamlerock,
rear drive, front drive, all wheel drive - doesn't matter which.
rear drive only has additional tire wear on the rears if you abuse the throttle and SPIN the rears. If you don't ever induce throttle oversteer, the front, and rear will wear pretty much the same - especially in a car the has a 50-50 distribution - fronts naturally should wear quicker as they are responsible for steering and braking.

Now - getting back to the burning smell.

It is especially noticable when parked in a garage. I have no idea what it is.

Other smells? Coolant sometimes.

Shamblerock

Rotator, I have a feeling that the "push" action of rear wheel drive cars is harder on the tires because of the weigth shift to the backand the back end applies a downward force on the tires the more you accelerate providing good contact and greater friction to the road. Front wheel is a "pull" action and under acceleration the weight comes off the front tires because the front end rises. Just my views/experience since I had the exact same tires on a VW front wheel drive Passat V6 for 5 winters and never smelt rubber even though I pushed it often. No way these winters are going to last on the RX-8 for that many winters. On the OEM Bridgestones that came with the 8, I never smelt the burning rubber smell so I conclude its the soft winter compound that is melting off more quickly because its rear wheel drive. Hey, I am no engineer, but that's my opinion.

I agree with you that fronts will wear on the sides more for sure. But you bring a good point about the braking because the weight shifts to the front every time. However, you are on the acclerator more often than you are on the brakes so I don't f_king know anymore.

No coolant smells from my car.

Rotator

Shamblerock,
Yes, you are on the accelerator more than the brakes - but only to overcome friction. As for weight shift - in our cars, with 50% distribution weight shift is equal on both fronts and back.
Any CAR is capable of decelerating A LOT faster than they are capable of accelerating. But if you think about it - unless you never stop - you are accelerating exactly the same amount as you brake.
You are only on the accelerator more than the brakes due to friction forces - wind, tire friction, etc.
No coolant smell? That's good.
I will have to trace mine.
All I know is the car runs pig rich - the exhaust pipes are black within a couple days.

Shamblerock

Rotator, I hope you successfully figure out your problem(s). As for the black pipes, join the club; we all have the same issue according to the feedback from others on this site.

Shogun

Shamblerock:
Parked the car in the garage and the tires were completetly wet, the water should have masked the smell. I could really smell something strong burning; now suspect rear brake pads as I did several hard stops before entering the garage.

RX8_Buckeye

Relax Shogun, I'm 99% sure it's your tires. My winter tires stink up the whole garage, even after I've been driving on snow or they're completely wet. Either that or it's a strange coincidence that we both have rear brake pads that started "burning" soon after we installed our winter tires. If you're that worried, put your summer tires back on and see if the smell still exists after hard driving.

Shamblerock

Shogun, I'm of the same opinion as RX8 Buckeye. It didn't happen with my summer tires. Its too large a coincidence that most of us have this burning smell with winter tires.

As for your other post on the CEL, mine never came on ever once so I can't help in that instance.

scoop

It's not your tires burning, it has nothing to do with the tires or the clutch . . . There coincidence is that it is winter, not that you have winter tires . . . My 8 doesn't smell because I am not driving it but my old Audi smells exactly the same as you are describing, particularly if I beat on it. It is quite simply all the salt water and crud off the winter roads building up on the exhaust, engine, transmission and brakes. When that stuff gets baked by very hot parts it stinks really badly, like burned oil or like cooking brakes caused by a seized caliper. It has been particularly bad here this year as the roads have been wet for about a solid month now. The Audi like the 8 is pretty low and has a longitudinally mounted engine/transmission which exposes a lot more hot metal down near the road. Other FWD transverse setups, lower performance cars or taller vehicles don't seem to be affected by this issue as much, if at all. The issue becomes a real challenge with an old car like my winter car when you are second guessing if the smell is really normal road crud burn-off or a looming problem. Oil leaks, seized calipers, slipping clutches or similarly smelly things shouldn't be the picture for any 8 yet I should hope . . . I made winter tires give off a burning smell only once, got stuck trying to do a standing start near a ski hill on a 20% grade covered with snow and ice, gravity won. The 8 will leave lots of extra rubber around in winter though, too much power for those poor winter tires. I was getting lots of wheel spin on cold dry pavement with the summers just before I put it away. The tires won't smell though unless go for some real burnouts . . .

Shamblerock

Scoop, interesting perspective but I totally disagree. The smell is coming directly from the rear tires and not underneath the car in a general manner. RWD or FWD, shouldn't make a difference with your theory.

RX8_Buckeye

Yes, I also disagree. In all my winters of driving, I have never experienced a smell like this. The smell is definitely stronger by the rear tires.

daddyg

I checked this out yesterday, and could smell a burning smell by the back tires. This after only about 10 minutes driving on bare pavement. At first i thought it might be my clutch, since I'm still getting the hang of manual, and from time to time I've ridden the clutch.

scoop

Have you noticed that there is a huge honken mufler next to the rear tires, lots of spray from the rear tires are going to coat it. I have experienced this for years, a low performance car with big exhaust smells much worse than your average car in winter. None the less that's just one factor and not the only possible issue.

It could be your parking brake cable hanging up also. When the car smells like that when you stop it, touch the center of all four wheels to see if one or more are hot or at least a lot warmer than the others. If a caliper is seizing or the parking brake is stuck the hub will get quite hot to the touch and it will stink badly. Don't directly touch any brake parts at first, things can get hot enough there to burn. In general if it is quite cold you probably do not want to use the parking brake. I already had the parking brake cable adjusted by the dealer on my 8 becuase it was really lazy when retracting so there might be a clue there. For fun I had a look at the service manual and yikes, the rear caliper looks very similar to the Girling units that have given me grief for years on German cars. I sincerely hope that's not the case. I noticed previously though that they dipped into the Bosch parts bin for the ABS setup so anything is possible. For the adventurous types you could pull a rear wheel and see if the parking brake cable is retracting properly. It hooks on a leaver that drives a small cam into the back of the brake piston. There is an exposed spring connected to that leaver that should return it fully to a stopper when the hand brake is released. I have had the guts of Girling self adjusting rear calipers fail MANY times but it usually takes several years for the first occurrence, then you hop on the rebuilt parts treadmill. If things start to seize up you can sometimes clear it by jabbing really hard at the brakes a few times, I would do that and then not use the parking brake for a week and see if the symptoms go away.

Shamblerock

Scoop, thanks for taking the time and effort in providing detailed responses to this thread and sharing your experience/knowledge. It make us all that much more informed.

Just got back from a 40 KM highway trip. No booting. Can smell the burning rubber scent coming from the back. But less than I expected. Re the parking break may make some sense, but it is just too much of a coincidence for all. However, I will keep my eye on the parking brake operation and even have mazda look at it next time I go in, just to rule that out.

One other thing to consider is a very soft initial couple of milimeters compound on these snows. Maybe that piece burns off real fast and then slows a bit as the compound gets harder/older. Because if you notice, at least on my set up, the snows were super quite when first put them on.

scoop

Well lots of winter tires get harder as the tread wears but it's not because they are older. On many tires the compounds are layered with the outside part being very soft. i.e. made with multi-cell/foam like rubber or filled with nut shells or silica etc. They can't make the whole tread out of that as it in not mechanically strong enough. Tires like that can be very grippy but tend to wear super fast, like one or two seasons and they are down to harder rubber like all-seasons. That's why I like Hakkas, same compound throughout and the sips are very deep in comparison, I can get about four seasons out of them. The tires shouldn't get a much louder though, I had tires that got very loud before but they were on a path to self destruction. If the manufacturers name begins with P, be careful. Also make sure you have enough pressure in those tires, you usually want to run winters 3-5 PSI above what you run the summers. That will keep them running cooler and lasting longer.

Shamblerock

Hey Scoop, you are right about the "PP tire manufacturer. Once had a bad experiernce with a set on my wife's car.

mantis32

Just ordered from Tire Rack
225/50VR17 Bridgestone Blizzak LM-22
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....4&autoModClar=

Will post more once they arrive and are tested.

krakadder

first post...
Just had a set ot Toyos put on tonite... my dealer's last set.
The drive down my street was... interesting to say the least, on 2in of snow with the stock REs... good thing the main roads were just wet at by that time.
So far, I'm feeling good about them. I was hoping to take advantage of Shamblerock's deal down at Miss. Tire, but they were out of rims, and almost out of tires as well...

Had to make a quick trip to Home Depot for some things - nice empty parking lot on the way out... wheeee!