Rx8 engine swap
06-30-2017, 12:46 AM
#1
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Rx8 engine swap
Hey guys, I am a newbie to rx8 and I love the car to death. Saved up all my money to buy it but got fooled by the previous owner that he rebuilt the engine. However I just bought the car a year ago and the engine just died 1 week ago. I have an rx8 2004 auto. As i am a student I would like to know my cheapest options. A new engine is costing me 6000 $ (plus labor). Apex seal is costing me 3000 $ but i risk getting more problems in the future as only 1 rotor is dead. It's really tough for me to get that money as I am international student. My friend suggested that i do an engine swap for a LS v8 vortec engine (1000 $ only for engine second hand ) I have 1000 $ budget so so I'll jave work for another month to afford it and labor is free as my friend will do it. I am wondering ior any how much additional cost would it take to get it running I mean what other parts will need to buy. I am willing to work and bi weekly try to buy each part until i get everything it needs to run. Or is there another suggestion other than the ls engine that i can afford I just need it to run atleast for another year until I finsh studies and be able to work full time and afford better and look after the car better or even change for better engine as i will be able to afford it after a year. And how will it be a cheaper way for me to put the engine together for me to run for atleast a year. I hope i dont across as an idiot but i really need help.This car is my bread winner, takes me to work and school and is my only family or friend i can ask for in a foreign country. I appreciate all the advice and support from you guys. Thank you
06-30-2017, 06:44 AM
#2
FULLY SEMI AUTOMATIC
iTrader: (9)
if you have to ask you cant afford it.
06-30-2017, 07:34 AM
#3
My V8 swap cost me over $8k. If you _just_ swapped the engine, just to get it in there and running, you'd need
The motor
New motor accessory drive (truck one is too deep) && serpt belt
Camaro oil pan
Car intake / fuel rails / injectors
coolant hoses
New fuel system (fuel lines, regulator, pump)
ECU + programming (remove VATS, EGR, etc etc)
trans bellhousing adapter, I'm concerned the input shaft wouldn't be splined correctly either
Exhaust system
Fabrication of mount system (or to purchase one)
And I'm surely missing stuff
if it were me and I needed a DD, I'd skip this swap and for the same price just buy 3 Honda Accords so you can have a couple of backups.
The motor
New motor accessory drive (truck one is too deep) && serpt belt
Camaro oil pan
Car intake / fuel rails / injectors
coolant hoses
New fuel system (fuel lines, regulator, pump)
ECU + programming (remove VATS, EGR, etc etc)
trans bellhousing adapter, I'm concerned the input shaft wouldn't be splined correctly either
Exhaust system
Fabrication of mount system (or to purchase one)
And I'm surely missing stuff
if it were me and I needed a DD, I'd skip this swap and for the same price just buy 3 Honda Accords so you can have a couple of backups.
06-30-2017, 08:18 AM
#4
Registered
Sorry to hear about the problem with your car.
I am not a "rotary" expert but will share my thoughts from many years of living with older cars.
Was the dead rotor determined by the correct compression test? You need to make sure that it is not an ignition problem before....
If it is compression and you are still able to use it then try adding 2 - stroke oil to the gas tank maybe 250ml to a tank fill. it might help with sealing..
Don't think there is a good solution for you if it is compression though; the only engine change you can afford would be a another used auto spec RX8 unit, with little guarantee of success.
As for any other type of motor, not really an option for you, while it is done, not easy and will get very expensive.. (there is a section for engine swaps here).
To be considering rebuilding and swap options I ***-u-me that the car is in general very good condition, and think you should think about parting with it as it is and buying something else as more basic transportation for the next year.
Just my thoughts..
Trevor
I am not a "rotary" expert but will share my thoughts from many years of living with older cars.
Was the dead rotor determined by the correct compression test? You need to make sure that it is not an ignition problem before....
If it is compression and you are still able to use it then try adding 2 - stroke oil to the gas tank maybe 250ml to a tank fill. it might help with sealing..
Don't think there is a good solution for you if it is compression though; the only engine change you can afford would be a another used auto spec RX8 unit, with little guarantee of success.
As for any other type of motor, not really an option for you, while it is done, not easy and will get very expensive.. (there is a section for engine swaps here).
To be considering rebuilding and swap options I ***-u-me that the car is in general very good condition, and think you should think about parting with it as it is and buying something else as more basic transportation for the next year.
Just my thoughts..
Trevor
06-30-2017, 10:54 AM
#5
Yes, exactly. Engines don't just 'die', there are a number of reasons it might not be running. Tell us what actual symptoms are, maybe there are easier ways.
Also, perish the thought of swapping an LS in there. Sourcing the engine is not the problem, getting it to work with the car without time and money is where most people abandon such projects. The successful swaps you see were not a budget solution at all.
06-30-2017, 12:25 PM
#6
Registered
if you're in Toronto area get with Dave at Mazdees and go from there;
Mazdees Performance
Address: 1031 Toy Ave, Pickering, ON L1W 3N9
Phone: (905) 619-8813
if a simple engine replacement is too much $$ for you, sell it and move on to another car. i suggest a small toyota or Honda as a student.
Mazdees Performance
Address: 1031 Toy Ave, Pickering, ON L1W 3N9
Phone: (905) 619-8813
if a simple engine replacement is too much $$ for you, sell it and move on to another car. i suggest a small toyota or Honda as a student.
06-30-2017, 01:51 PM
#7
Smoking turbo yay
Quoted from RIWWP's rx8help.com:
LS Swap
Often talked about, very very very rarely completed. The financial cost of failure is about as high as the financial cost of succeeding, and has been easily north of $30,000. There is nothing existing today that will make an LS swap easier. Every single last bit is custom. Even cars like the Miata where there are shops that do the swaps regularly STILL have a turn-key price of $30,000. For an RX-8 you can expect a healthy amount higher. As to who does them, the short, and nice, answer is that ZERO shops that can do this kind of swap advertise for it. None. Period. End of story. Someone once asked what parts he needs to buy for an LS swap...
- engine
- stronger and compatible transmission
- stronger rear end
- stronger rear axles
- custom created driveshaft to the measurements in your car
- ECU to run the engine
- Several thousand feet of wiring
- An entirely new front subframe
- gauge cluster that works with the ECU
- a steering rack that you can get to work (stock one won't be able to fit there any more)
- entirely custom created cooling system for the coolant
- entirely custom created cooling system for the oil
- Completely custom exhaust built on your car after the engine is installed
- lots and lots of fabrication work by SKILLED fabricators to modify every single structural part of the engine bay
- lots of labor by someone that knows what they are doing with electrical work to re-wire every part of the car into the new ECU
If you want AC, your AC will have to be completely custom
Literally nothing in the engine bay that is there in a stock RX-8 can stay where it is with such a swap. Including things like re-locating the brake master cylinder, which means re-running hardlines for the brakes.
Set aside about $25,000 to start, and expect to need another $10,000 to $20,000 more. Expect to not have your car for a minimum of a year. Expect that the best price you can get won't be able to finish within a year and will have stuff wrong and jacked up. Expect that the 2nd best price isn't any better. Expect that the highest price you are quoted is probably from the only shop that can actually complete it, and for more than they quoted you.
Expect that once the engine is swapped, you will need to replace the suspension, wheels, and brakes to deal with the difference in the weight balance and dramatically different torque dynamics.
However, if you have the time, the skills, and the money, it is certainly possible to get the swap going: RX8Club.com: LS6 Upgrade Parts List and Paperwork
Note: The swap still isn't complete as of the time of this last article update, which says something about the difficulty of following through.
In short: engine swap is no cakewalk. LS engines maybe cheap, but to get it to work in an RX-8 is another story.
Since you have the base auto(4-port R2 4AT), the engine actually may cost more than a 6-port because of how rare they are. Personally, I'd dump the car; base autos are pretty lame anyways. Use that money plus your savings and buy a 6-port 6MT RX-8 if you can afford it, or just buy an old Honda Accord or Toyota Corolla. My old Corolla cost me CAN$1200 to buy, and an old 6th Gen Accord Coupe shouldn't cost a lot, either.
LS Swap
Often talked about, very very very rarely completed. The financial cost of failure is about as high as the financial cost of succeeding, and has been easily north of $30,000. There is nothing existing today that will make an LS swap easier. Every single last bit is custom. Even cars like the Miata where there are shops that do the swaps regularly STILL have a turn-key price of $30,000. For an RX-8 you can expect a healthy amount higher. As to who does them, the short, and nice, answer is that ZERO shops that can do this kind of swap advertise for it. None. Period. End of story. Someone once asked what parts he needs to buy for an LS swap...
- engine
- stronger and compatible transmission
- stronger rear end
- stronger rear axles
- custom created driveshaft to the measurements in your car
- ECU to run the engine
- Several thousand feet of wiring
- An entirely new front subframe
- gauge cluster that works with the ECU
- a steering rack that you can get to work (stock one won't be able to fit there any more)
- entirely custom created cooling system for the coolant
- entirely custom created cooling system for the oil
- Completely custom exhaust built on your car after the engine is installed
- lots and lots of fabrication work by SKILLED fabricators to modify every single structural part of the engine bay
- lots of labor by someone that knows what they are doing with electrical work to re-wire every part of the car into the new ECU
If you want AC, your AC will have to be completely custom
Literally nothing in the engine bay that is there in a stock RX-8 can stay where it is with such a swap. Including things like re-locating the brake master cylinder, which means re-running hardlines for the brakes.
Set aside about $25,000 to start, and expect to need another $10,000 to $20,000 more. Expect to not have your car for a minimum of a year. Expect that the best price you can get won't be able to finish within a year and will have stuff wrong and jacked up. Expect that the 2nd best price isn't any better. Expect that the highest price you are quoted is probably from the only shop that can actually complete it, and for more than they quoted you.
Expect that once the engine is swapped, you will need to replace the suspension, wheels, and brakes to deal with the difference in the weight balance and dramatically different torque dynamics.
However, if you have the time, the skills, and the money, it is certainly possible to get the swap going: RX8Club.com: LS6 Upgrade Parts List and Paperwork
Note: The swap still isn't complete as of the time of this last article update, which says something about the difficulty of following through.
Since you have the base auto(4-port R2 4AT), the engine actually may cost more than a 6-port because of how rare they are. Personally, I'd dump the car; base autos are pretty lame anyways. Use that money plus your savings and buy a 6-port 6MT RX-8 if you can afford it, or just buy an old Honda Accord or Toyota Corolla. My old Corolla cost me CAN$1200 to buy, and an old 6th Gen Accord Coupe shouldn't cost a lot, either.
06-30-2017, 07:15 PM
#8
You gonna eat that?
iTrader: (1)
Hey guys, I am a newbie to rx8 and I love the car to death. Saved up all my money to buy it but got fooled by the previous owner that he rebuilt the engine. However I just bought the car a year ago and the engine just died 1 week ago. I have an rx8 2004 auto. As i am a student I would like to know my cheapest options. A new engine is costing me 6000 $ (plus labor). Apex seal is costing me 3000 $ but i risk getting more problems in the future as only 1 rotor is dead. It's really tough for me to get that money as I am international student. My friend suggested that i do an engine swap for a LS v8 vortec engine (1000 $ only for engine second hand ) I have 1000 $ budget so so I'll jave work for another month to afford it and labor is free as my friend will do it. I am wondering ior any how much additional cost would it take to get it running I mean what other parts will need to buy. I am willing to work and bi weekly try to buy each part until i get everything it needs to run. Or is there another suggestion other than the ls engine that i can afford I just need it to run atleast for another year until I finsh studies and be able to work full time and afford better and look after the car better or even change for better engine as i will be able to afford it after a year. And how will it be a cheaper way for me to put the engine together for me to run for atleast a year. I hope i dont across as an idiot but i really need help.This car is my bread winner, takes me to work and school and is my only family or friend i can ask for in a foreign country. I appreciate all the advice and support from you guys. Thank you
I think you should give up on this 8 as it's more than likely going to cost more to repair than it's worth, and try to find a dependable, affordable used car like a Honda or Toyota, preferably from a reputable dealer with a warranty plan if you can afford it.
'04 automatic 8s are not very desirable as it is, being more underpowered than manuals.
Continue to read the forum, educate yourself as much as possible, save, and wait for a nicer manual 8 with good compression, and a documented history.
Cut your losses and start over with a new plan
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