jimsabo21

Hi Everyone,

Maybe now I'm starting to get paranoid.

I really love my RX8 - don't get me wrong ... I'm just concerned that my dealership might have sold me a lemon ...

I bought the car last week (November 3rd) - the car was on the lot and had 440 KM's on it. They told me that the Dealership Manager had driven it for a few weeks, and it had been on about 5 or 6 test drives.

When I look inside the door jams, I see that the car was made in 05/03 (in May) ...

With the long waiting lists for the RX8 - is it possible for this car to have not been sold for 5 months?

Could it be that someone bought it and returned it, and they didn't tell me (hence the 440 KM's already on it)?

The reason I ask is because this car is showing all the problems of first edition RX8's ...

1. Extremely poor gas mileage (185 KM on 50L)
2. Alignment is off (car always pulls either left or right, hard to handle)
3. Oil light has come on
4. Coolant light has come on

I'd like other Canadian's to check their door jams, and see the date their car was built, and then post the month they bought it ...

This is getting very suspicious ...

Gord96BRG

What are the last 4 digits of your VIN? My car is a May build, VIN 1791.

The story does sound fishy, but I know one dealer group here has a red RX-8 GT that was the first to arrive, and kept it as a demo/showroom car.

Easy way to check their story - call Mazda Canada with your VIN, explain your concern, and ask who the first registered owner is. If it's not the dealer and it's not you, then it might be a buyback car.

Regards,
Gordon

canzoomer

This is the common build date range for the first 550 made that came into Canada.
As for the problems:
1) Mileage has not changed between build dates.
On one of the threads here a fellow solicited for us to send in our info on mileage, driving habits, amount of mileage on car, and the VIN, etc...
There was NO correleation between VIN # and mileage.
Also, the common idea that the cars got better mileage over 2,000 miles was disproven as well.
2) If alignment is off get the dealer to fix it. Check your tire presures first though.
3) Oil light coming on is not uncommon. The fixes are the replacement oil pan ( Mazda Canada have a few of these in stock now, so get your dealer to ask for one) and there is also an ECU flash that will help with check engine lights that can be done while it is in. The check engine cure is an official TSB now, so they can look it up on the Mazda service system.
4) Coolant is an issue. Have you checked? Is it topped up?
Again, dealer should take care of this for you.

Don't be overly worried about these things. They are all in the realm of dealer and warranty service, and if taken care of promptly, should not be big issues.

However, the question about the car being returned is an entirely different matter.

I spoke with Mazda Canada today, and they confirmed that in Canada the cars that were returned are being sold by the dealers. The dealer gets to buy the car again from Mazda, at a discount, based on the mileage, time and wear& tear, and they can sell them as new. Or at least as "demos"
So, I think you have VERY good reason to ask the dealer for proof that this was not a buyback car.
They tell me that 37 cars were bought back in Canada.

Jasper_the_2nd

Well, unless they all have that date on the sticker, which I wouldn't think they should, that is kind of odd.
Mine has the same date 05/03 and mine was on the first shipment to Canada. I took deliver on July 22nd.
The last five digits of the VIN could be helpful in tracking when (more or less) it was built. I'd assume an October deliver car would be at least in the 5 or 6000+, if not higher.
And if the oil light is coming on at constant highway speed when the oil is still well above the fill mark, then it sounds like it has the older oil pan on it, which wouldn't be on any car manufactured in at least the last 2 months.
It may be that the car was just at the dealership for quite a while.
I'd assume the dealership should have to tell you when they received the car, if you ask. If not, Mazda Canada definately should.

As far as the problems:
I've never had mileage nearly that bad. My worst was 300 km for 52L. 185 is brutal. Care to describe the driving conditions that resulted in that?
The only problems I've had with pulling is when braking on uneven roads (which is most of them in N.S.). There have been several discussions on this and the most agree it is just because of the big, wide tires.
I had the oil pan replaced on mine a month or so ago.
And I've never seen the coolant light come on.

To be honest, I'd be l'd be less concerned about it being a buyback (since 440 km is pretty low for someone to have returned it) and more concerned about what the dealership may have done to the car putting the 440 on it (either the Manager or if they let people test drive it). There have been some pretty bad stories about cars being abused on test drives.

Assuming you haven't been too aggresive with it yourself, you might be able to take it too a different dealership and get them to pull the data out of the computer and see if that gives you any info about how the car was driven before you got it. I'm not up on what is actually stored, but there has been mention of it tracking quite a bit.

jimsabo21

Thanks for the replies.

My driving habits are very concervative (especially until I hit 1500km) - I want to make sure the car is properly broken in ...

I live in the city, and only drove in the city on my first tank (that got me 185km) - the weather was really cold last week (-5 to -15 C) ... had to let the car warm up more than I otherwise would ...

My VIN ends in 0699

Does that mean this car was the 699 built by Mazda?

If so - again, with these long waiting lists, I wonder why the car would be available in November?

I wish I would have found these forums before I purchased the car! I had to take the dealerships word on everything ... they told me it get "exceptional gas mileage for a sports car" ...

I really don't think it was a buy back because you'd think it would be against the law for them not to tell me that - but the more I think about it, it probably was a demo all summer ... so every idiot in Winnipeg probably test drove it, beat on it, then placed an order ...

Of course, the dealership told me that it's common for the Manager to drive high priced vehicles for a few weeks, and the car had been on a "few" test drives ...

My heart gets the best of me - I saw the car and wanted it now ... didn't want to wait 5-6 months ...

Now I'm stuck making big monthly payments for the next 4 years and have no buy back option ...

What are my rights as a leaser if the gas mileage is double what the brochure and dealership claimed it would be?

Jasper_the_2nd

How long a drive do you have? I find really short drives (mine is only 6 minutes to work) are rather bad on mileage. And the cold won't be helping it either, from what I've seen.

Assuming there isn't a 1 as the 5th digit, my understanding is that to was the 699th chassis built. After the chassis is done, they tend to get a bit out of order, since the cars are apparently done in batches based on options.
That would definately be a first shipment car though. Mine is 819 and it was first shipment.

You definately should be able to find out when the dealership received the car.
Why it would still be there could be any number of reasons. I know there are a few 8's sitting in dealerships in N.S. that came in on the same train mine did.

And a lot of us can certainly understand following you heart. If I'd followed my brain instead of my heart I'd have taken the buyback, wouldn't be making payments all winter for a car I'm storing this week, and would be ordering a new one in the spring.

jimsabo21

I work only 4km away from where I live ...

But I also just "drove around" lots ... you know, the first week, can't stop driving

Redshift

iTrader: (2)

If only to make your self feel better, run a Carfax on the car. It will show when it was registered.
On message boards like this you can usually find all kinds of people who'll run free Carfax's for you. You've got nothing to lose, and it will put that question to bed in your mind forever.

Jasper: I'm SO disappointed in your memory. You took delivery on the 22nd? I got mine on the 23rd (the same day the train arrived) and you got yours the next morning... since they came off the same train. You're slipping man.

As for an original car still being on the lot... sure. The dealership down the road from me still has a car sitting on the lot that came off the same train as mine (I'm 0501 BTW) simply because it's not a colour/model package that's in demand locally.
They've ordered in and sold more cars, but the 2 non-preordered ones ones from their original allotment of 4 cars are still on the lot.

canzoomer

First off, Jim, you live in Canada.
Yes, you got #699.
I have 1877 personally.
In over 5500 kilometers so far I get an average on highway travel of around 15 liters/100 kilometers (15.8mpg).
That gives me around 345 kilometers to use a tankful. This is mostly around 140kmh.
When driving at 120kmh I an average of 14l/100km (16.7mpg)
In the city I get 16.1l/100km (14.7mpg)

Most of the first batch delivered into Canada this summer arrived in port in late June, and were shipped to dealers in the 2 weeks starting on July 14th. These were made in May 2003.

I received one of the first dealer deliveries on July 17th.

Don't expect much in the way of consumer rights protection here ,as in Canada we have essentially none.
There are a couple of ways they get off the hook, for example:
The EPA fuel economy ratings are performed in a very unnatural test setup. Almost nobody ever gets these numbers, in any car. However you are right in that the claims Mazda publish are about double of what the reality is.

The documentation and brochures for the car ( and virtually all by all makers) states in the fine print that they reserve the right to change any specification or detail without notice.

Reallly you have two main methods of recourse:
1) Talk to Mazda Canada, Public Relations.
Their phone number is 800-263-4680
I have found that they try to help, and can especially recommend Mr. Richard Panneton. His extension is 2454. When you hear the recording just dial 2454.
If you get his voicemail ( likely as he is very busy) do leave him a message, as he is very good about returning his calls. Be reasonable. He is human, and does his best.

2) If you do not get any satisfaction, you may wish to think about filing a claim in small claims court against the dealer.
Small claims court is inexpensive. Go to your local Provincial Courthouse to get more details.

To do so you need to make a case.
IF you have a witness to the dealer saying that the car has exceptional mileage, then this witness needs to be available for the court date, and you will need a signed writtne statement from him/her.
You need to keep accurate detailed records of your fuel consumption, including mileage at fillups, location, brand and type of gas, and most importantly what you paid. Keep the receipts.
Your main hope is to prove that the mileage you are geting compared to what you were led to expect, is an unreasonable cost, and that you are suing for recovery.
You can employ a lawyer, but I doubt this will gain you much, except for an expensive legal bill.

jimsabo21

Thank you very much Canzoomer ... your information is appreciated ...

I'm on my second tank of gas, and have put on 40km and the needle is almost at 3/4 full ...

If I break 250 for city driving, I'll be somewhat satisfied ... anything less than that will prompt me to take action ...

Jasper_the_2nd

You're right, of course. I knew it was thursday, but for some reason last night I I thought that was the 22nd, and didn't bother checking. They arrived in the autoport on the morning of the 23rd at something like 3:02 am, but that is probably the wrong time. And here I thought my memory had improved since I stopped drinking Diet Coke. Time to cut out aspertame all together I guess....

Edit: Heh, I figured out why I got it wrong. I took possession of my house on the 22nd of May. Apparently I easily confuse dates when I spend large sums of money...

Literatii

Jims..

Just curious (since I lived in Winnipeg for 10 years)... when you say your commute is 4K; do you mean a "Portage" or "Main" 4K? As in heinous stop n go rush hour?

Stop n go in the 8 seems to REALLY suck the gas. I've had some good tanks (400+km) but the bad ones (~300km) have always been when my normally smooth 100km/hr commute turns into bumper-to-bumper garbage.

It could also be the cold weather. I haven't driven my 8 to work for the past 2 weeks because of this fricking snow storm. I'll see how much it affects the mileage later this week when I get my snows on.

jimsabo21

My drive to work is in stop 'n go traffic ...

But that accounts for a small portion of my overall driving ... I do lots of other stuff at night ...

On my first tank - I only went to and from work 4 times that week (only got the car on Monday night) ...

I have the worse gas mileage of any post here ... including all the american posts ... if you convert my gas mileage, it's less than 10 MPG ... the worse I've seen posted on these boards is 13 MPG

westie

Sorry to hear about your troubles, but this is exactly why we took the buyback when it was offered. I got tired of waiting for the mileage to improve and realized the dealer knew less than I did about all the other little defects on the car.

Luckily we found the forum before we took delivery, so we knew how to deal with Mazda. Stick with the forum members advice and you won't go wrong!

BTW why don't you just quote L/100km like us easterners. I mean that's how they sell gas in our country and it's certainly a lot less confusing when comparing numbers. Our former RX8 got 17.1L/100km on the last tank before we sent it back. Our new G35 coupe got 9.1L/100km on it's first tank, so I figure total monthly expenses incl. fuel should work out the same as the RX8.

Redshift

iTrader: (2)

I'm over 1-year totally caffeine free (and that was cold turkey from over 2L of Coke per day) so I know what you mean.

As for the large sums of money.... I picked up my RX-8 on July 23rd and my house on August 15th... the woman at my bank gave me some STRANGE looks when I came in for that 2nd large bank-draft in only 3 weeks... Funny how those large expenses stick in your head. [I picked up my old SiR on March 18th 1999...]

... and back to the mileage thing... my all-time best was an extended highway cruise where I hit 12.6L/100km... my weekly average is closer to 16L/100km....

Taffy

Westie

If you are spending the same total amount of cash on the G35 as the RX8, why did you change? Unless you think the G35 is a better car of course?

Just wondering

Murray

I found the production date and VIN number correlation weird.My 8 was built 06/03 and my VIN is in the 5000's.What does that mean?

westie

Hi Taffy:

Finally getting around to answering your question. I had not actually figured out how much we were saving before we got the G35, I just assumed we would given the difference in fuel consumption.

After making the comparison I realize we now save $180/month on fuel based on driving 30,000 km/year and paying avg. of 90 cents/litre (premium). This is based on our RX8 giving 17L/100km and the G35 giving 9L/100km. This is the actual combined (city/highway) we got with our former RX8 and are getting with our current G35 coupe. It also costs $20 more per month to insure than the RX8.

The 2004 G35 listed at $6,000 more that the $42,000 RX8 but the dealer discounted it to $45,000 so it cost us $3,000 more. If we had leased I think it was going to cost $25-30 more per month (different interest rate between Mazda and Infiniti). By purchasing, after 18 months we will start saving money driving a more expensive car (with many more options-we like the dual zone climate control) and after 3 years it is supposed to worth at least $6,000 more than an RX8. That is the logical side of the decision. Having said all this, the G35 coupe is nice to drive but in the end, it's just a car. I would have to say that the RX8 wasn't just a car, but a passion.

Why did we change?

Good question, I think the RX8 was the best car I have ever owned (for the shortest time) and I was sorry to give it back. It is such a cleverly designed car that it put the joy back in driving for me. Unfortunately owning it was becoming a crap shoot, ie. will the motor seize (like canzoomer), will they fix the fuel consumption (that they won't admit is a problem), and all the other little problems (that we knew more about than the dealer)

Sometimes in life when you get a lemon (pun intended) you have to make lemonade. I don't think a car company will offer to buy back a new car from me again in this lifetime, so common sense said we had to take it. The logical side of my brain is very happy with this decision while my emotional side is still in therapy. I hope you continue to enjoy your new RX8 for many years to come.

Cheers, Westie