enforcer

This topic always raises hot debate, and is too complicated for the average joe to understand. As far as pricing of fuel is concerned, the oil companies are saying they will always have the discretion of fuel prices. That's the oil business.

World fuel price averages are Australian dollars per litre.

Brisbane = $1.49
Britain =$2.33
Darwin = $1.62
Groote Eylandt = $1.03
Sydney = $1.62
Melbourne = $1.60
Tasmania = $1.49
Fiji = $2.80
United States = $1.05
Indonesia = .68
France = $2.59
Egypt = .30

..and get this, you can buy a good pushbike for one tank of petrol...but it dosen't help the people who travel 50+ kms to work each day.

EDIT: Breaking news....CommSec equities economist Savanth Sebastian has predicted we'll be on the high side of the cycle within the next fortnight. Add another 20c per litre.

matt13b

I am freaking out about it.I am thinking of selling the 8 before it is completely worthless!

enforcer

You're not alone Matt13B, and if it reaches $2.00 per litre there will be even more pain.

Whether you own a Mini or a V8, I predict we're all in for a world of hurt....unless OPEC increases production.

erx8s

Be positive and look at driving the 8 as a new found status symbol in that you can afford a gas guzzling sports car but save your $$$$$ on not using Mazda Australias expensive parts and the dealers rip off servicing prices

Dont forget fuel is only a part of the car running gauntlet, try running a Mercedes or BMW in this market .

The RX8 is relatively cheap to run , service if your prepared to shop around .

Matt 13b Its all those aftermarket bits you have placed on your ride that hurt .$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Ric shaw adjustable sway bars, Racing Logic Competition coilovers, Rays Gramlight wheels, SMB full exhaust sytem(extractors,high flow cat & midpipe,cat back exhaust), Veilside carbon fibre bonnet. Cusco front strut tower brace, Bridgestone RE55 semi-slick tyres 245/40/18.Braided stainless steal brakelines.




Cheers
Michael

thisllub

The graph below is interesting.
Current prices are way above anything on that graph.
Price cycles seem to last around 10 years. We are only about half way through that.
If peak oil theories are true then the upward trend will be high and permanent.
It is more likely at this stage that the markets are overreacting and prices will work their way back down to $100-$120 a barrel for a decade or so.
Carbon trading prices will add about 10-15 cents a litre by then so $2 a litre will probably become a benchmark for a good while.

Ethanol is the major hope at this stage. E85 ethanol will quickly become the norm. Whether the RX-8 can be modified to run it I don't know.

GM Butanol would be ideal as it is pretty much a straight replacement for petrol.
Craig Venter (the sequencer of the human genome) claims to have invented a bacteria that turns CO2 into fuel.

All is not lost - yet.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._1861_2007.svg

Flashwing

I can only hope that our officials here in the United States tuck in their dress and start allowing for exploration and drilling for domestic sources of oil. If we're able to increase the amount of oil on the world market it would certainly go a long way to lowering prices.

I guess it's just going to be a case of when people in both our domestic economy and the international community start screaming uncle.

enforcer

Couldn't open the document. This one also shows where we've been, and the second is the world peak oil scenario in 2010....

matt13b

I was thinking actually it would be good if I had some serious cash and make every panel carbon fibre to save weight and hence fuel but I'm dreaming again.. (check the front cover of this months High Performance imports-RE Amemiya full C/F RX7_AWESOME!)

auzoom

Trevor, your priceing doesnt account for government taxes. I believe Australia and the UK have the highest rate of tax on bowser fuels.

Do most people realise that the oil we have down in the bass straight is some of the best in the world. We ship that off overseas and buy in the crap stuff!

Cromax

This was a comparison made by the AIP for month September 2007 for unleaded fuel.



We're not so bad in comparison to other countries.

Here's the diesel comparison as well:



Reference: http://www.aip.com.au/pricing/internationalprices.htm

mdr

It is not just the amount of oil coming out of the ground that hurting prices. World refineries are all running near max capacity, we could not refine much more oil than we do currently.
Even if we could with the drop in the value of the US $ the oil producing countries are going to continue to demand peak pricing for the oil since it is all traded in US green backs.
The low value of the US $ also is what is holding them back from pumping more oil.

Hopefully after the US elections there will be a US President without his head up his bum and the US $ will start to turn around a bit.

erx8s

Bush personally asked for oil production to be increased by the so called friendly Saudi king , in order to lower the cost of fuel and help with the economical pressure on the US and the rest of the world the Saudi king was not willing to do so .

When Suddam Hussein attacked the Kuwati oil fields America quickly came to their rescue in hindsight it would have been far better to let him get the oil from the Arabs and then go in and take it off them . instead all they have managed to do is to shift the power base making Iran a real threat to the region and have totally f%#*&^ iRAQ and its people .

Cheers
Michael

StealthTL

iTrader: (1)

The graph just proves that all governments will tax you blind then blame the oil companies.

Try and keep the thread non-political, it's too interesting to get shut down......


S

(Point of interest - I work in a combined oil sands mine, upgrader and refinery. When the place was built in the 1980's it was designed to make a profit with $21 oil.....yesterday oil was $135. I may ask for a raise.)

ASH8

Could not agree more. IMO I am thinking sometime after the Olympics the world will go into a recession, the trigger is already there in the US.

Instead of giving Income tax cuts Mr Krudd should Remove the 38.5cent excise a litre.. It would help more people and reduce costs of transport than income tax cuts...it really is a no brainier.

Revolver

I appreciate people get interested in discussing this issue but I believe the only thing it achieves is more doom and gloom. Unless you're actually in a position to do something about it, what's the point of worrying about it? You may as well discuss how unfair death and taxes are.

Personally, I just fill up, pay up and don't give it another thought. Life's too short.

thisllub

Too late for that.
The Iraq war hasn't helped the US dollar but the Chinese are the real issue.
They have so many US dollars the US probably need their dollar to drop another 25 cents to slow Chinese imports.
Economists estimate that 1/3 of the value of the US dollar is due to its position as the major currency of trade.
The emergence of the Euro has been another large contributor to its decline.

So what for fuel prices?
Americans are catching up to the rest of the world in prices and will start driving smaller vehicles.
That won't have as big an effect on demand as it might because the US population is growing by about 5 million a year.

enforcer

I think this fuel source holds the key to our future....

matt13b

If they made Hydrogen we could change all the 8's to the Hydrogen ones they showed in Japan..

Revolver

Fuel alternatives are an interesting issue.

Although it has some particular challenges, I definitely agree hydrogen is a much more sustainable solution than bio-fuels. There's only so much arable land on the planet and it'll get to be a hard choice between transport and feeding us all.

enforcer

Hydrogen is s not only the cleanest, but it's the most abundant element on Earth....and we were one of the first when it was tested back in 2003.

auzoom

SOrry...forgot about this thread!

Yick! those chrome wheels are ugly! way to take away from the point of focus

As for the graphs, have a look at where we sit in comparison to countries that actually have oil!

Seperate issue! If only we had this problem! 33% rise to 68c/litre!

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.a...568909&rss=yes

Andy Wana

If you earn less than $2 a day, you'd realise soon that 68c/litre is a huge ask

auzoom

Having spent time living/working in Malaysia, I understand that, it wasnt my point. The point was that if one country can get prices there, why cant others?

enforcer

There are a lot of opinions out there with some expert's suggesting oil production has already reached its geological limits, or "peak oil".

The future could unfold in a number of ways....and if any of you are sensistive to doom and gloom DO NOT read on....

1. Oil price collapse

Fuel subsidies could suddenly be scrapped, dousing demand. Cost pressures have forced Malaysia, Indonesia and Taiwan to cut them, but China is hardly strapped for cash. Opec producers are under no pressure to abolish subsidies; as the oil price rises they get richer.

Prediction: very unlikely.

2. Peace could break out in Iraq
The long-disputed oil law agreed, and international oil companies start work on the world's largest collection of untapped oil fields.

Prediction: vanishingly unlikely.

3. Oil price stabilises or moderates

Deep recession in the West might cut oil consumption enough to offset growth in the developing world and Opec, or even engulf them too, softening prices.

Prediction: unlikely in the short term.

4. Oil price soars

Russian oil output has gone into decline; Saudi Arabia has shelved plans to expand production capacity, and advisers to the Nigerian government predict its output will fall by 30 per cent by 2015. More news like this, expect oil at $200 a barrell.

Prediction: likely.

5. Exports fall
Big oil producers will increasingly divert exports for home consumption. Opec, Russian and Mexican exports expected to fall, pushing oil to $200 by 2012.

Prediction: highly likely.

6. Peak oil

After 150 years of growth, the oil age is beginning to come to an end. "Peak oil" is the common term for when production stops increasing and starts to decline. At that point what have been ever-expanding and cheap supplies of the resource on which all modern economies depend become scarcer and more expensive, with potentially devastating consequences.

Pessimists believe that production has passed its peak. Optimists say it may be 20 years or so away – which would give us some time to prepare – but are now muted. Last week the hitherto optimistic International Energy Agency admitted that it may have overestimated future capacity. Chris Skrebowski, editor of 'Petroleum Review' and once an optimist himself, believes that the world is now in "the foothills of peak oil". Prices may ease a bit over the next few years, but then the real crunch will come.

Prediction: "Pick a number!":sleep:

7. Travel

Oil provides 95 per cent of the energy used in transport, so this will be hit hard and soon. People are likely to go on using their cars, but airlines are expected to be the first to suffer. On Thursday, British Airways' chief executive Willie Walsh declared that the era of cheap flights was over, suggesting that those environmentalists who have made them their main target for combating climate change may have been wasting their breath.

Any plan to aggressively reduce air travel is also likely to produce the same sort of unintended consequences that would be produced by an aggressive plan to reduce automobile travel: severe economic dislocations, followed by massive social unrest.

At least three carriers have already gone bust this year. Last week, American Airlines said it was cutting routes, laying off staff, and charging US passengers $15 to check in a bag because of a $3bn rise in its fuel bills. Even Michael O'Leary, chief executive of Ryanair, says the oil price is "really hurting". On Thursday, Credit Suisse analysts said his company would slip into the red if oil prices rose just a little more, to $140 a barrel.

Prediction: More companies will go bankrupt.

8. Cars

The world's biggest oil well, it is said, lies beneath Detroit. US vehicles get an average of only 25 miles per gallon. Dramatically improving this would do more to ease the oil crunch than any likely new discovery. But new measures recently approved by Congress would increase the average only to the 35mpg already being achieved by China. Europe does better, if not well enough, at 44mpg.

Rising fuel prices are already beginning to drive change. Sales of 4x4s are plummeting in both the US and Britain, and those of hybrids – which do 60mpg are soaring. As the price climbs further, manufacturers will unlock long-prepared plans for much more efficient vehicles. "Plug-in" hybrids, charged up with electricity overnight, save another 45 per cent in petrol consumption. Further down the line is the "hypercar" – made of tough, light plastic – which could cross the US on a single tankful.

Prediction:

9. Shopping

Effectively, almost everything is partially made of oil, and so is going to get more expensive. About 10 calories of oil are burned to produce each calorie of food in the US, and farming a single cow and getting it to market uses as much as driving from New York to Los Angeles. Some 630g of fuel is used to produce every gram of microchips.

The cult of local, seasonal produce will enter the mainstream, as everyone learns about food miles and a modern-day Dig for Victory grips gardeners – bad news for the farm workers overseas who provide 95 per cent of our fruit and half our vegetables. Trips to out-of-town supermarkets will seem extravagant, heralding a high street renaissance and a new surge in online grocery shopping.

Prediction: Soon we'll all be eating our own potatoes.

10. Third World

Poor countries and their peoples will be hit by a devastating double whammy as both their fuel and food prices increase. Last year, when oil cost only about half as much, countries from Nepal to Nicaragua were hit by fuel shortages. At least 25 of the 44 sub-Saharan nations are facing crippling electricity shortages.

As oil is used in agriculture, its increased cost will also drive up the price of food, making more and more people go hungry. Worse, expensive petrol is bound to increase the drive towards biofuels made from maize and other crops, which then brings the world's poorest people into competition with affluent motorists for grain – a contest they cannot win. Just one fill-up of a 4x4's tank with ethanol uses enough grain to feed one person for a year.

Prediction: Oil companies get richer...everyone else gets poorer.

11. Emerging economies

China and India and other developing countries will help to drive up demand for oil and compete for scarce supplies. This has already helped to raise prices: demand for oil from Western countries has actually fallen over the past two years, but the emerging economies have more than made up the slack. And they have the money to do so.

Chinese and Indian consumers have so far been insulated from the effects of the price increase by heavy government subsidies, and their industrial revolutions and rapid growth are largely fuelled by oil. There is little sign that the growth in demand will slacken These countries are also likely to follow the time-honoured Western tradition of making deals with oil-exporting countries – and backing unpleasant regimes – to try to secure supplies.

Prediction: China and India become more powerful.

12. Conflict

Last week. the embattled Gordon Brown – "incredibly focused" on oil, according to his spin-doctors – began playing the blame game. "It is a scandal," he said, "that 40 per cent of the oil is controlled by Opec and that their decisions can restrict the supply of oil to the rest of the world."

Someone should tell him that he should be blaming geology – or God – and that, as oil production peaks, Opec countries simply will not be able to pump more. But he is not alone; four US senators warned Saudi Arabia that if it did not step up the flow, the US might withdraw its military support.

There will be much more of this as supplies tighten. Three years ago, a US army report predicted oil would soon peak, and security risks increase.

Prediction: Expect oil wars...we've already had one – in Iraq.

The Australian Government taxes us approximately 50c for every $1.50 in fuel. If they were sympathetic we could see a shaving of 5 - 10c, but it will come at a reduction of services in other areas and we've just got to grin and bear it.

As individuals we can do many other things to save monies in other areas of our budget and it will never be too early to prepare ourselves for the onslaught of the $2.00 storm on the horizon...

ASH8

Contrary to popular belief that Government controls "Oil Companies" they are in fact private (share ) owned organizations.

Why do companies/countries align themselves with "world parity pricing", simple...if you were the owner of an oil rig say in Australia, would you sell your product cheaper in your home country because you are a good guy, or would you sell it on the open market at $130US a barrel?, keeping in mind that you are responsible to your board and shareholders?

No one in their right mind are going to sell something vastly cheaper than what they can get overseas/markets.