takahashi

Any one which oil is the best for the car? what about different rating like 5w 50. What difference does it make

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

OK - Just to throw a spanner in the works...

My Brother-In-Law is the Director of a BP division. His prior position with BP was worldwide sale of BP synthetic base product. BP = Castrol.

So I sent him an email asking him if there is any difference between TXT Softec 5W-30 and Synthetic R 5W-30.

His reponse:

TXT Softec 5W-30 = Part Synthetic
Synthetic R 5W-30 = Full Synthetic
"Thank you for supporting our product"

So I will now ask him for any futher information on which is the special oil for the Renisis.

Mmmm...


Cheers,
Hymee.

labrat

Hey Hymee

If that's the case, you might get your BIL to chivvy up their technical hotline people and make sure they have the right information to give to the punters. Fortunately, my beast didn't need a top up, and I've kept the docket for the oil. Does that mean that Mazda Oz has cornered the market on a superseded product?

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

OK - I got another response from my "bro"

"well to be honest, formulation could change from one country to another; it's rare because it cost extra money but it happens. on th e other hand, I am sure a guy from the help line would not tell you what I told you, just in case you work for Shell or Mobil !! anyway, it's true that some formulations go better with some types of seals than others and I would follow the recommendations if I were you, but we are really getting down to the 3rd order details here, which should not make a difference unless you drive a formula . Now, of course the way you like to cane your baby might, under extreme conditions (going uphill at maximum speed and with 40 C outside), influence the service conditions. anyway as long as you stay within the recommended drain interval , it should not be a worry!
anyway, at the end of the day, check on the price if there is a bigdifference (>about 20%), what i said is right!"

Sorry for the slightly broken english. He is French, working in Tokyo! But he is a top guy.

BTW - I looked in the owners manual last night. Outside Europe, there is 13 distinct grades of oil suitable for the engine, ranging from 5W-20 to straight 40.

So now it's time for some Hymee opinions:

• There are more myths about oils than there are about sex.
• Someone mentioned mineral oil burning better... I thought the oil was injected to help lubricate the apex seals.
• I would have thought the better the lubrication properties of the oil, the better the protection offered to the seals.
• If you use what is recommend in the owners manual, how can you go wrong? The warranty is good.
• I reckon the newer Castrol R would be just fine.

(insert teacher smilie here)

Cheers,
Hymee.

Lock & Load

Hymee i have read that depending on the oil used your power rating could have a differential of 3% -4% when testing the car on a dyno , if thats the case then( oils arent just oils )

DAZ-13B

Hi fellow rotariens !!

you may already know this but I have read in many books and service manuals that Mazda only recomend using mineral based oils in Rotary engines.

Check with your local dealer!!

REgards

Daz

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

That is right. Obviuosly the lower the visocsity of the oil, the less friction.

Also note that you can get different readings on a dyno depending on the day. And it is near impossible to compare one dyno to another. They are a tuning tool to measure changes made to things like the state of tune (i.e. fuel and spark maps) etc.

Cheers,
Mark.

labrat

Hymee, please thank your bro-in-law. I noted (as I'm sure you have) that the Castrol full synthetic was around $75/5L at Supercheap. I seem to remember that the TXT Softec was pretty much about the same price as the Formula R when I used to buy Magnatec for my other car - I used to think $25-28/5L was enough, and was shocked at paying $50 for oil. How a new car can change your perceptions.

I think the argument against synthetic in the RX7 was that it didn't burn as fast, and that it led to varnish build up, but apparently the Renesis has different design characteristics in this respect.

After all of that, I checked my car after about 1000km of motoring, and found it only needed ~100mL, if that.

We took it up to Noosa today to hear some jazz (us, not the car). The only problem was some rather aggressive hot Commodore and Ford drivers. I think there's nothing better than letting the morons roar past. Hell, they know deep in their bones who has the cooler car. What do we have to prove?

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

No worries labrat.

I probably know some of those Commodore drivers

Well, my last car was an SS (and my dog's name is Brock, and I have a Holden card.....). Totally different sort of car. In pure horsepower terms it was a long way in front of what I have now. It was putting out 235 kW at the rear wheels, which buy a common rule of thumb is about 300+ kW at the flywheel.

It would nice to do similar mods the the '8 - nyuk, nyuk!

But kW is not everything. The '8 is a sports car from the ground up. It more than makes up for the lack of power in it's handling and brake package, and it's level of refinement. I love my '8!

You are right about letting them fly buy ya. Although I am going to be tempted...

Cheers,
Hymee.

(just to keep this thead on topic) PS - I get your drift about synthetic not burning and therefore gumming up. I guess the jury is still out. I will probably be tempted to get a bottle of the Castrol R 5W-30 for top ups.

rx8 - smooth!

Thanks guys,

I was a little iffy about putting in a synthetic oil in the motor but your comments have given me the confidence to go ahead.

This forum is a great source of information for those of us that love our RX8s. There may be some rubbish on here but I cannot imagine not having this huge source of information available

timbo

My dealer in Canberra (Slaven Mazda) told me they are using Mobil1 0W-40. I note from the Mobil website that this is a fully synthetic oil.

Timbo

Kev

Brookvale Mazda service chap said "YOU SHOULD NOT USE SYNTHETIC OIL IT THE RX8".

I would advise Mazda Australia if your Mazda dealer is using what seems to be the wrong type or grade of oil and ask them what is going on with that dealer if it's wrong. (Dob them in!!!)

If you suffer engine damage due to the dealer's stupidity I've no idea where you stand - specially if it blows up the day after your warranty expires.

I've never seen Mobil 0w-40 for sale, what engines would use that in Australia?

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

So here is something to ponder...

Why would synthetic oil not burn? It is still long chain hydrocarbons, the same chemical composition as oil out of the ground, it is just made in the lab.

Just thinking,
Hymee.

Kev

Maybe rotaries are meat eating engines...

sco

Castrol just rang me in response to my email query about Mazda recommending Castrol product.

I was told that 5w30 Synthetic R is the recommended product for the RX-8. I queried this due to the recommendation to use non-synthetic oil and asked if this had been OK'ed by Mazda and the person on the other end of the phone consulted an email he had and told me that Mazda is OK with this.

Anyone heard anything from a reputable source at Mazda?

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

sco,

Did you ask "the person at the other end" if they could forward on the email?

That would just about bury the issue.

Cheers,
Hymee.

timbo

Kev, according to the Mobil website, Mobil1 0W-40 "provides maximum protection, even during extended-use driving. It meets performance specifications of most carmakers, including Mercedes-Benz, Porsche, BMW, Volkswagon and General Motors." No mention of Mazda!

In terms of Mazda mentioning a number of possible oils, this accords with Australia's competition laws which would act to prevent Mazda specifiying the oil of just one manufacturer.

http://www.mobil.com.au/mobil/mn_mob...cts_mobil1.asp

But this oil story is becoming a real muddle: synthetic or non-synthetic; 5W-30; 0W-40? Castrol, Mobil etc

It concerns me because I always change my oil & filter every 5,000k, and want to get onto a consistent high quality oil that totally meets the vehicle spec.

Timbo

labrat

I agree with the thrust of Hymee's argument, that in effect oils ARE oils, synthetic or no. It's one of those areas I guess (as a chemist) I should know more about, but until now, hadn't given much thought. I can only think that with synthetic oils the manufacturer has more control over the spectrum of hydrocarbon chain lengths (and I suppose the chemical nature of the hydrocarbons) than is possible with oils derived from the refining of crude oil. I could imagine that synthetic oils have been produced to give a longer service life than their "natural" counterparts, and this could include a higher resistance to combustiona. It could be this higher resistance (translating to "harder to burn") which could be of concern in rotary motors.

I'd like to see a more informed exposition than my speculations.

I too have checked the table in the owner's manual, and it would seem that at least in SE Queensland, we can use an oil with a higher minimum viscosity.

sco

No I didn't... as I would not expect someone to comply with a request like that.

I really want to hear this sort of information from Mazda, not Castrol anyway.

Does anyone recall seeing anything in writing about not using synthetic? I can't seem to find anything in the manual that states this.

Lock & Load

mazda dealers will be getting japanese oil within 2 to 3 weeks but i suspect it will be no different than castrol 5w -30 as i dont believe that mazda has an exclusive oil just for the rx8 , and it will be interesting to see the price difference between castrol and mazda .
Iwill be changing my oil when the japanese version comes in .

rpm_pwr

Honestly, the oil debate is nearly as old as the rotary itself. At the end of the day, Mazda (and I don't count the opinion of dealers here) have NEVER officially recommended any synthetic for rotaries.

BUT, (and here's how the controversy starts), companies like Mobil and Castrol have tested their synthetic blends and have stated that they are OK for rotaries. This thread is as good as any of the hundreds on rx7forum.com on the topic:

http://ausrotary.dntinternet.com/for...opic.php?t=263

IMHO, I've seen enough people get >100,000km using Mobil 1 so I'm convinced it burns fine. If I had a car under warranty though, I'd be using something like XHP because the oil cannot be blamed if something goes wrong.

As soon as that warranty finished, I'd be back on Mobil 1. I was seeing 5-7degrees cooler water temperatures when running Mobil 1 and pushing 215rwkw

-pete

sco

I rang Mazda customer service on Thursday... they said the "Mazda" oil was available now. So I rang a couple of the bigger spare parts depts in Brisbane... they both said they don't even have a part number yet and no idea when it would be available.

Pretty poor effort from Mazda customer service I must say.

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

Agreed. You would think they would get there act together. Wonder what they would do if you needed an oil change, or for that matter asked for one

Cheers,
Hymee.

Kev

My understanding is that the correct RX8 oil is available to the Mazda service departments in a bulk drum, The guys at the service department of Brookval Mazda have all been of on several RX8 training course and seem to know their stuff.

But it's NOT currently available as a "spare part". They've been told it will be coming out with an Oil Co's brand on it, soon - but no "when".

As mentioned previously - they filled a 5l container for me. It tastes great!!!

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

Kev,

That sounds like the go. I might give that a try. :D

Cheers,
Hymee.