Revolver

Below is the text of an email received this morning from a friend (no, not the signatory). Not sure if it is accurate or not but feel free to call her up, lol.

Yet another way the fun police are after us. Mind you, speeding on freeways is pretty dumb anyways (and boring). And yes, I know the Vics have had to cope with these for a while.

ITS UP AN RUNNING, SO BE WARNED.

New Legislation M5 & M7 Re Speeding Fines

M5 and the M7 are now equipped with Point to Point Speed Devices. On entering the M7 the etag beeps and a camera takes a photo of your car recording the exact time. On exiting the etag system beeps again another camera at that point takes a photo of the car and the time. Then the computer calculates the time it has taken you to
travel between the two points and calculates your speed. If you completed the clocked journey too fast you are issued with a speeding ticket.

At the present the speed limit is 100K.P.H. with a tolerance of 102 maximum.. Over that and you are issued with a fine automatically. What a shock some drivers are going to have when they use this roadway for a week and get a weeks ' tickets BOTH WAYS. Of course your license will also be recalled for 3 months. Now with the new legislation, fighting a Speed Camera fine is almost impossible. You must prove the device is faulty and if you are not a technician working on them, you have no chance of beating the fine.

The Pacific Highway has a set and these are recognized by large steel frames over the lanes with a speed camera and some distance up the road is another large metal frame with a speed camera.

These new point to point systems are being put onto any expressway and highway where vehicles are not able to exit between those points.

NOTE: School zone cameras are not speed tolerant. Anything over, even 41, is a fine.

Tammy Umasaran
Corporate & Admin Support
Ministry of Transport
Phone: 02- 9891 8941
Fax: 02- 9891 8999

b'Eight'

The camera snapping and send the fine in the mail is unconstitutional. Don't pay 'em. When you get a photo camera radar ticket by mail, you never sign anything. Legally you do not have to respond, appear, pay or anything else. The only way you will ever hear anything about the ticket is if an officer shows up at your door with a summons for you to appear in court.

timbo

It's a hoax Who is the poor bunny at the end of that phone number? Do they really need the grief?

Not unconstitutional in AUSTRALIA Of course, it ought to be

Always worth checking which part of the globe the sub-forum you're posting in is located

takahashi

Welcome to our world!

We are so use to it that we slow down to under the speed limit in most bridges and parked cars.

Only speed up overtaking lanes where there is wide open space with no bush land and no hidden cars in sight.

Revolver

Thanks for the heads up Timbo.

It sounded wrong to me too but I wouldn't put anything past the greedy revenue raising ****** who pretend to care about safety in this rotten state.

takahashi

I sometimes question if the clock inside camera A is the same as camera B.

You see if there is a minute of difference, then you are a minute in front by default and the recording of average speed is much higher as a result.

I have no idea how to calibrate it but the fact that they are not allowing anything over 102kmh in average speed. They are pretty confident in their accuracy.

I wonder if Winton can quote a 1-2% accuracy in their lap timing. hehe

timbo

Very easy to calibrate and synchronise clocks on a network. While I don't know if VicRoads or whoever does, given the issues they've had with single point speed camera calibration, it is likely they would need to do so for point-to-point cameras in order for any cases to stand up in court.

This technology can be very accurate -- certainly well less than 1% error if properly installed/calibrated. However, the problem is that the average car speedo can be up to 10% out, under the ADRs

Laptimers, either using telemetry or GPS, are also pretty accurate (<0.5%). Even RaceChrono with a cheap Holux GPS has been giving me nearly identical times to the timing systems used at Winton and Wakefield, to the 100th sec.....I'm still slow

thisllub

They have trialled P2P cameras on the Pacific Highway section between Yelgun and Chinderah. I don't know if the trial is still going or not.

auzoom

only one place in Vic with P2P cameras and that is the Hume Hwy from Donnybrook to Broadford.

Dave, I highly doubt the accuracy of that as I believe in NSW you still have the 10% tolerance rule? or am I wrong?

Also, is it even the MOT that control these things? Dont think so, so I think its one persons "interpretation" of what they have been told. Again, coming from a mexican.

Cheers

Andrew

DMRH

Have been thinking of a way to avoid the revenue collectors masqurading as Speed or P2P cameras. As State Gov become more & more dependant on the revenue from camera fines (fact, not fiction) more & more cameras will get installed to reap the rewards desired by those in power

Now, before any of the "**** do-gooders" start up, its only an idea & it never hurts to have a creative mind. Yes I know it would be illegal. Yes, I know the easiest way to avoid them is to slow down, yes we should all go & buy Toyota's, yes a person can step out in front of you in the middle of no-where, yes you can get hit by a bus tommorrow, yes you can..........Yawns

Anyway, back in reality.....I have seen welding masks where the glass goes from clear to dark at a press of a battery operated button.

Transpose that same screen into a license plate cover & run wire to dash mounted button enabling you to block your plate at the sight of a money grabbing camera.

More effeicent than a James Bond revolving plate. I cant picture the little revolving motor & oversized cutout in the rear bar allowing practical operation.

This is just another step in the never ending cat & mouse game of authorities wanting your money & motorists protecting themselves from the legal theft that takes place. Every motorist will deal withthis issue in their own way.

shaketim

DMRH, thats genius, some nice "fine minimization" technology there
very clever

alnielsen

iTrader: (4)

Someone has all ready tried this. It was used in the European Bull Run. I believe they were doing it to go through toll plazas at speed. There was a video of them testing the device. It's a simple LCD panel. I would think it would be very susceptible to damage on a auto.

auzoom

There are also sprays that go on your plate cause a reflection that makes your plate unreadable and plate covers that do the same thing.

http://www.ghostplates.com/
http://www.delonixradar.com.au/products/vf2.html

But you have to be aware that front on shots have access to your license sticker which has your rego on it too and can be used (in Vic anyway).

timbo

Contemplating...or worse....actually doing these types of things as forms of evasion inevitably lead to the delivery of your car as a crushed, compacted 1m cube on your front lawn.

That's not to say I agree with the increasing police state on speed detection -- just the reality of how that system will really take it out on you if caught with deliberate evasion systems

takahashi

Timbo is right. It is not worth risking the penalties. The rule are made for the state to get more $$$$. Victorian have put on their budget for 50% increase in fine revenue this year. Someone has to pay the bill. Traffic fine is nearly like tax.

To protest, we can flash and warn drivers and really slow down (I do it 20kmh below the speed limit), to get traffic congestion and they will not get a single fine if there is congestion on the road.

Revolver

The avuncular Timbo and Taka are right (except for the 20 below practice - that's just plain dumb ) but it is frustrating that we get crap roads and worse speed limitations . I can readily understand why people get jack of it and resort to extremes to avoid detection.

Cure - more track days.

mx5geek

I believe people should question speed cameras more than they do, because I dont think the readings they get from them are legally traceable as they are required to be by the measurement act legislation.

You'd need a good lawyer but I think if you ask them to prove that the devices were not adversely effected by any temperature/humidity/electromagnetic or radio interference then I daresay they'd have quite a lot of difficulty proving it to the level that is legally required.

Petrol pumps need to be approved to all sorts of conditions and certified/verified regularly... so why arent the speed cameras!!

Btw. I cant see how point to point cameras could stand up too well form a measurement point of view either... there are a whole host of questions that I doubt have very good answers!


But again . . . the only way to test it is to take it to court yourself and thats going to be $$$

Revolver

This has all been tried a number of times by various cashed up motorists. Just about all lose and those that have got up have just given the RTA pointers to make them even harder to fault.

takahashi

On average a person can spend around $7500 for a traffic offence in court. I heard on ABC radio that one dude spent $750K to defence his licence?

What is the point (I am on my bike now)

Revolver

Agreed. We're expensive creatures, lol.

There's nothing better than a client who utters those immortal words "I don't care how much it costs, it's the principle".

Daisun

Both the M7 and M5 websites have info regarding this hoax:
http://www.westlinkm7.com.au/News-Detail.asp?NewsID=80
http://www.m5motorway.com.au/news/

auzoom

I wonder how many people realise its illegal to flash with high beams?

matt13b

I know it's illegal but I do it anyway. I'd rather warn people and take the risk.I appreciate it when they have warned me in the past at their own risk.I doubt you would actually get fined for it,probably just told it was illegal.I would try and say I was looking for the window washers and did it by accident..

lordjay

If this was true, I would shoot myself. Man those coppers/enforcement agencies are becoming more sneeky by the day! I was pulled over for doing 73km/h in a 60km/h zone on my way to Uni (a day before double demerits, phew!), and the cop was hiding behind a tree on Mona Vale Rd with his Radar. I couldn't see the guy and I got a shock when he revealed himself from the bush and waved his "Stop, Police" sign. The thing was there was 2 other cars travelling around the same speed but I was unlucky to be in the Left lane

auzoom

Does NSW have laws against commiting a crime to catch a crime? ie a police car cant be breaking the law (parking illegally) to catch someone speeding.