Motor Magazine PCOTY
03-09-2004, 10:30 PM
#1
DSC Disabling Officer
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posts: 468
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Motor Magazine PCOTY
New Motor Magazine is out, PCOTY edition
And the winners is :
the Lambourghini Gallardo (duh!)
2 M3 CSL (duh!)
3 Audi RS6 Avant (Wagons shouldn't go that fast)
4 Nissan 350Z Track (slower than the Rx8 to 100kph)
5 HSV Clubsport R8 (missing an "X")
6 BMW Z4 3.0i (high marks on driveability)
7 Audi S4 (boring)
8 RX8
0-100 6.58
0-400 14.58 @ 156 kph
0-1000 26.5 @ 199.8
Top speed 235 kph
Lap time 1.44.62
Apparently the big downfall was the engine.
The lambo had a track time of 1.37.51, slower than the M3 CSL.
And the winners is :
the Lambourghini Gallardo (duh!)
2 M3 CSL (duh!)
3 Audi RS6 Avant (Wagons shouldn't go that fast)
4 Nissan 350Z Track (slower than the Rx8 to 100kph)
5 HSV Clubsport R8 (missing an "X")
6 BMW Z4 3.0i (high marks on driveability)
7 Audi S4 (boring)
8 RX8
0-100 6.58
0-400 14.58 @ 156 kph
0-1000 26.5 @ 199.8
Top speed 235 kph
Lap time 1.44.62
Apparently the big downfall was the engine.
The lambo had a track time of 1.37.51, slower than the M3 CSL.
03-10-2004, 01:45 AM
#3
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sydney
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I just wish MOTOR would learn to turn off the DSC/TCS properly (hold that DSC button down) before getting on the track - this will help lower those lap times! ... and beat those 350Z turtles!
RX8 on the track: "and there the DSC (even deactivated) rams on the brakes if there's too much yaw."
RX8 on the track: "and there the DSC (even deactivated) rams on the brakes if there's too much yaw."
Last edited by Z88M; 03-10-2004 at 01:47 AM.
03-10-2004, 05:04 AM
#4
NT Rotorhead
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Katherine, NT
Posts: 746
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lemons.... Still, if Mazda provided the car, they SHOULD have told them how to fully turn DCS/TCS off.
That is of course if MA know how to do it....
When I picked my car up from the dealer and the salesman sat me inside my car to show me how everything works, turning the DSC fully off was only one of a number of things that I SHOWED HIM how to do.
That is of course if MA know how to do it....
When I picked my car up from the dealer and the salesman sat me inside my car to show me how everything works, turning the DSC fully off was only one of a number of things that I SHOWED HIM how to do.
03-10-2004, 06:04 AM
#5
New Member
Originally posted by Wildcard
Lemons.... Still, if Mazda provided the car, they SHOULD have told them how to fully turn DCS/TCS off.
That is of course if MA know how to do it....
When I picked my car up from the dealer and the salesman sat me inside my car to show me how everything works, turning the DSC fully off was only one of a number of things that I SHOWED HIM how to do.
Lemons.... Still, if Mazda provided the car, they SHOULD have told them how to fully turn DCS/TCS off.
That is of course if MA know how to do it....
When I picked my car up from the dealer and the salesman sat me inside my car to show me how everything works, turning the DSC fully off was only one of a number of things that I SHOWED HIM how to do.
03-10-2004, 08:52 AM
#6
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sydney
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well they had a special little feature (with picture) for the BMW Z4 on how to turn DSC off completely and the RX8 has the same system.
While we are on the subject (6kph top speed difference aside) the RX8 (8th) beat the Z4 (6th) in every performance area. So was it the Z4 brake fade feature on the track or the badge that impressed them more?
While we are on the subject (6kph top speed difference aside) the RX8 (8th) beat the Z4 (6th) in every performance area. So was it the Z4 brake fade feature on the track or the badge that impressed them more?
03-10-2004, 02:31 PM
#7
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Gold Coast Australia
Posts: 3,535
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
THESE GUYS ARE clearly not lovers of the rotary engine , and the first 3 places went to cars worth between $200,000---$400,000
You could buy 6 rotaries for the price of one Lamborghini 3 rotaries for a M3C BMW .
CHEERS
michael
You could buy 6 rotaries for the price of one Lamborghini 3 rotaries for a M3C BMW .
CHEERS
michael
03-10-2004, 03:30 PM
#8
New Member
ohhh..... M3 CSL is good though... I love a GT3 as well mate
But I am waiting to see what the SLK 55 AMG like. Sure it will be special
It is only a dream, who does not want a Lambo here... L&L mind you Lambo colour is YELLOW
But I am waiting to see what the SLK 55 AMG like. Sure it will be special
It is only a dream, who does not want a Lambo here... L&L mind you Lambo colour is YELLOW
03-10-2004, 04:00 PM
#10
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Gold Coast Australia
Posts: 3,535
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
Dont be concerned as far as i and many others are concerned the car and realestate bubble is starting to deflate .
The people who borowed large amounts of money purchasing realestate and other toys , are still dancing but one thing they have overlooked is that the music has already stooped .
There is going to be some good buying of second hand cars and realestate soon , be patient Grasshoppers .
The public has forgotten , the lesson from previous economies .
FERRARIES , PORCHES AND OTHER TOYS WILL BE PLENTIFULL SOON.
cheers
michael
The people who borowed large amounts of money purchasing realestate and other toys , are still dancing but one thing they have overlooked is that the music has already stooped .
There is going to be some good buying of second hand cars and realestate soon , be patient Grasshoppers .
The public has forgotten , the lesson from previous economies .
FERRARIES , PORCHES AND OTHER TOYS WILL BE PLENTIFULL SOON.
cheers
michael
03-10-2004, 05:28 PM
#11
aka Smoothy
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Brisbane Australia
Posts: 186
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I was going to buy this mag but put it back down when I saw comments along the lines of "Great car but let down by the rotary motor" These guys are obviously not rotary fans. There was then some mention that the car would be better if they put in a turbo Mazda 6 motor - Duh! DO they not realise that the only way to squeeze this motor in they would have to move it further forward in the car and it would weigh more which would destroy the graet thing about our car - balance!
Never mind - I think I am still going to have to buy it I want to read all the performance stats!
Never mind - I think I am still going to have to buy it I want to read all the performance stats!
03-10-2004, 07:42 PM
#12
rev it up
L&L,
Your comments about the economy and the expensive car market is very perceptive.
Yes the real estate market has slowed down...since November actually. It looks like it will remain slow sor at least another couple of months before turning around.
The broader economy would need to turn around significantly before people start selling out of expensive toys...like a recession.
This may happen if Labour gets in and and spend money like crazy and sends the economy out of whack...as they usually do.
SKC
Your comments about the economy and the expensive car market is very perceptive.
Yes the real estate market has slowed down...since November actually. It looks like it will remain slow sor at least another couple of months before turning around.
The broader economy would need to turn around significantly before people start selling out of expensive toys...like a recession.
This may happen if Labour gets in and and spend money like crazy and sends the economy out of whack...as they usually do.
SKC
03-10-2004, 07:53 PM
#13
DSC Disabling Officer
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posts: 468
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SKC,
I think we should keep politics out of this. I am pretty sure
Howard is about to open up the pre-election warchest in the
hope of spending his way to the next election. This is before
labor even gets a chance to play with the federal coffers.
I think we should keep politics out of this. I am pretty sure
Howard is about to open up the pre-election warchest in the
hope of spending his way to the next election. This is before
labor even gets a chance to play with the federal coffers.
03-11-2004, 12:27 AM
#14
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Sydney
Posts: 212
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by rx8 - smooth!
I was going to buy this mag but put it back down when I saw comments along the lines of "Great car but let down by the rotary motor" These guys are obviously not rotary fans. There was then some mention that the car would be better if they put in a turbo Mazda 6 motor - Duh! DO they not realise that the only way to squeeze this motor in they would have to move it further forward in the car and it would weigh more which would destroy the graet thing about our car - balance!
Never mind - I think I am still going to have to buy it I want to read all the performance stats!
I was going to buy this mag but put it back down when I saw comments along the lines of "Great car but let down by the rotary motor" These guys are obviously not rotary fans. There was then some mention that the car would be better if they put in a turbo Mazda 6 motor - Duh! DO they not realise that the only way to squeeze this motor in they would have to move it further forward in the car and it would weigh more which would destroy the graet thing about our car - balance!
Never mind - I think I am still going to have to buy it I want to read all the performance stats!
03-11-2004, 06:21 AM
#16
New Member
Just read the article... they have good driver there but they have no knowledge of the cars... just look at that they can't switch off the DSC on the 8. yes you can't switch off the 350Z unless you kill the switch at the electric end. But they have no idea about the 7 sec trick.
They have no idea of the 50:50 distribution due to the small size of the rotary engine. If they suggested the turbo Mazda 6 ( what a f#$#ing stupid idea) this will upset the car. Even putting tubro in the 8 will need balancing at the rear...
They probably did not take out the spare tyre at the back as well... If they did not , then they are a bunch of f*%^&ing idiot, as the car is develop without the rear spare
I am going to write to them and ask those question. If they don't have any idea about this ... then I will write to the WHEELS to get their butt kick.
MOTOR have no knowledge of cars
I am not buying any of their mag ever now
They have no idea of the 50:50 distribution due to the small size of the rotary engine. If they suggested the turbo Mazda 6 ( what a f#$#ing stupid idea) this will upset the car. Even putting tubro in the 8 will need balancing at the rear...
They probably did not take out the spare tyre at the back as well... If they did not , then they are a bunch of f*%^&ing idiot, as the car is develop without the rear spare
I am going to write to them and ask those question. If they don't have any idea about this ... then I will write to the WHEELS to get their butt kick.
MOTOR have no knowledge of cars
I am not buying any of their mag ever now
03-11-2004, 05:08 PM
#17
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: sydney
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi guys,
glad to see there are so many people out there passionate about the RX-8. The car is good enough to deserve a huge following.
The brakes are fantastic, the chassis is brilliant (though it's a bit tail-happy on a track) and the steering's superb.
But some of you haven't read the PCOTY issue and, therefore, seem to be operating on only a small slice of the information.
The reason the RX-8 didn't do better was down to the engine, yes, but nothing to do with us being or not being rotary fans.
in fact, there are more rotary fans here than not.
the fact remains, and the only reason the mention of a turbo four pot engine was thrown up, was that it doesn't have any torque and it absolutely has to be in the right gear to get proper performance out of it.
We reckon it's a beaut engine at the top 2500-3000 revs of its range, but it doesn't do enough beneath that.
The problem - in this company - isn't that the engine's a rotary, but there's just not enough engine, regardless of the style of engine.
The 350Zed, on the other hand, has a much broader spread of useable engine performance and is faster around the track not because of traction control issues (it refused to fully switch off), but because it had terrific torque from mid-rpm on a racetrack that demands just that.
It also had a far higher top speed than the Mazda.
The Z4 excelled because of a brilliant chassis and an ability to make its power output seem higher than it is.
Hope that helps. We love the car. It's just that, on the criteria, it just wasn't fast enough if you're not in precisely the right gear or the right frame of mind. Around town, the lack of torque is frustrating. On your chosen mountain pass, though, it's superb.
cheers
glad to see there are so many people out there passionate about the RX-8. The car is good enough to deserve a huge following.
The brakes are fantastic, the chassis is brilliant (though it's a bit tail-happy on a track) and the steering's superb.
But some of you haven't read the PCOTY issue and, therefore, seem to be operating on only a small slice of the information.
The reason the RX-8 didn't do better was down to the engine, yes, but nothing to do with us being or not being rotary fans.
in fact, there are more rotary fans here than not.
the fact remains, and the only reason the mention of a turbo four pot engine was thrown up, was that it doesn't have any torque and it absolutely has to be in the right gear to get proper performance out of it.
We reckon it's a beaut engine at the top 2500-3000 revs of its range, but it doesn't do enough beneath that.
The problem - in this company - isn't that the engine's a rotary, but there's just not enough engine, regardless of the style of engine.
The 350Zed, on the other hand, has a much broader spread of useable engine performance and is faster around the track not because of traction control issues (it refused to fully switch off), but because it had terrific torque from mid-rpm on a racetrack that demands just that.
It also had a far higher top speed than the Mazda.
The Z4 excelled because of a brilliant chassis and an ability to make its power output seem higher than it is.
Hope that helps. We love the car. It's just that, on the criteria, it just wasn't fast enough if you're not in precisely the right gear or the right frame of mind. Around town, the lack of torque is frustrating. On your chosen mountain pass, though, it's superb.
cheers
03-11-2004, 05:10 PM
#18
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: sydney
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Oh, and of course we tested it with the spare tyre. we tested all cars as they'd be presented to an owner. Some cars had no spare, but everything that had one was tested with one.
that's only fair.
As for F*&$ing idiots, who develops a chassis to have no spare when they know full well it will be sold with one?
that's only fair.
As for F*&$ing idiots, who develops a chassis to have no spare when they know full well it will be sold with one?
03-11-2004, 05:37 PM
#19
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: sydney
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
well answered Micheal,
I think the good thing to come out of this discussion is that one of the main weaknesses of the rotary can be pointed out. Hopefully Mazda are keeping an eye on rotary fans thoughts, heated and passionate they may be and consider us when planning the rx7. I mean how desperate are people here to get another 7-8hp?? The answer may not be a turbo, definitely not a turbo four, but lots of talk about increased capacity and electric supercharging. One interesting idea, how many people would prefer less weight to extra power?? If you could only choose one would you go for a m3csl type weight reduction rx8-csl with the same engine or go for a turbo rx8-sp model.
I think the good thing to come out of this discussion is that one of the main weaknesses of the rotary can be pointed out. Hopefully Mazda are keeping an eye on rotary fans thoughts, heated and passionate they may be and consider us when planning the rx7. I mean how desperate are people here to get another 7-8hp?? The answer may not be a turbo, definitely not a turbo four, but lots of talk about increased capacity and electric supercharging. One interesting idea, how many people would prefer less weight to extra power?? If you could only choose one would you go for a m3csl type weight reduction rx8-csl with the same engine or go for a turbo rx8-sp model.
03-11-2004, 05:38 PM
#20
trust me..this wont hurt
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posts: 1,459
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Michael, thank you for your posts. It is no secret that mazdas chassis development has been excellent in all it's performance line ups, however a lack of power has always been a concern. This goes no just for the RX8, but also for cars made in the past.
Could you please address the issue of correctly switching off the traction control.
By the way, your use of profanities on this board is not required.
Could you please address the issue of correctly switching off the traction control.
By the way, your use of profanities on this board is not required.
03-11-2004, 05:41 PM
#21
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Sydney, Oz
Posts: 105
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi Michael,
Nice to see you come on and back up your comments with reasoned argument
I love our RX-8 to be (it's on the boat right now!) but I also understand that it isn't quite the worlds best car either. 
I read the article yesterday, and I must admit, that I found the sucess of the Z a little perplexing, but hey you guys drove all the cars back to back and I didn't.. Can I have the lucky bastard slot next year please? I doubt I'll be as entertaining as Strap- On, but I'm sure I can back some expensive piece of gear off the track at warp factor 9.
The Z was not that much quicker around the track- less than 1 second as I recall, it's about equal in straight line performance, but it's a harsh, unforgiving bugger on the road, the chassis balance is not quite there, and it doesn't stop as well as the 8.
Sure you have to get up the 8 to make it sing, but hey we are talking PCOTY here not Trundle to the ShopsCOTY are we??
I don't really see the difference between top speed 235 and 251 km/hr as being that relevant either on road, nor on most tracks is Aus either.
I don't doubt you guys put the time and effort into the decision and I don't think that I really have the experience to vehemently disagree with you :D
I must admit if I was going to do anything to the 8 it'd be wack a positive displacement supercharger on it...
Cheers
Rowdy
Nice to see you come on and back up your comments with reasoned argument
I love our RX-8 to be (it's on the boat right now!) but I also understand that it isn't quite the worlds best car either. I read the article yesterday, and I must admit, that I found the sucess of the Z a little perplexing, but hey you guys drove all the cars back to back and I didn't.. Can I have the lucky bastard slot next year please? I doubt I'll be as entertaining as Strap- On, but I'm sure I can back some expensive piece of gear off the track at warp factor 9.
The Z was not that much quicker around the track- less than 1 second as I recall, it's about equal in straight line performance, but it's a harsh, unforgiving bugger on the road, the chassis balance is not quite there, and it doesn't stop as well as the 8.
Sure you have to get up the 8 to make it sing, but hey we are talking PCOTY here not Trundle to the ShopsCOTY are we??
I don't really see the difference between top speed 235 and 251 km/hr as being that relevant either on road, nor on most tracks is Aus either.
I don't doubt you guys put the time and effort into the decision and I don't think that I really have the experience to vehemently disagree with you :D
I must admit if I was going to do anything to the 8 it'd be wack a positive displacement supercharger on it...
Cheers
Rowdy
Last edited by RRS; 03-11-2004 at 05:50 PM.
03-11-2004, 05:42 PM
#22
DSC Disabling Officer
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posts: 468
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi Michael,
I think at least a couple of times in various Motor magazine tests of the RX8, it has been mentioned that the DSC still lurks in the background applying brakes etc. on the limit, even with the button switched off.
In the PCOTY issue, it is said , and I quote "the DSC (even deactivated) rams on the brakes if there's too much yaw". Now this would surely affect lap times? Well, if you hold the button down for 7 or 8 seconds, a light appears on the dash indicating DSC is FULLY off. In this scenario, there would be no ramming of brakes and the car would do better lap times.
If you look at the TopGear video of the RX8 from the UK, you can see the car performing powerslides without any indication of DSC being active - and in the same video the car was lapping the same times as an M3. Given the M3 is quite a bit quicker, this certainly shows the car handles better than anything this side of a Lotus Elise.
I think at least a couple of times in various Motor magazine tests of the RX8, it has been mentioned that the DSC still lurks in the background applying brakes etc. on the limit, even with the button switched off.
In the PCOTY issue, it is said , and I quote "the DSC (even deactivated) rams on the brakes if there's too much yaw". Now this would surely affect lap times? Well, if you hold the button down for 7 or 8 seconds, a light appears on the dash indicating DSC is FULLY off. In this scenario, there would be no ramming of brakes and the car would do better lap times.
If you look at the TopGear video of the RX8 from the UK, you can see the car performing powerslides without any indication of DSC being active - and in the same video the car was lapping the same times as an M3. Given the M3 is quite a bit quicker, this certainly shows the car handles better than anything this side of a Lotus Elise.
03-11-2004, 05:52 PM
#23
aka Smoothy
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Brisbane Australia
Posts: 186
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Michael,
Firstly thank you for responding to us directly in this thread. I have since purchased the magazine and read it thoroughly.
I still have 2 points to make.
The reason the car is as beatifully balanced as it is is the weight but more importantly the compact dimensions of the rotary. Yes it is lacking torque but surely a better solution is to get them to put in a 16b or turbo the existing motor. Any other solution destroys the entire point of the car.
I have not driven the Z4 so you guys are one up on me in that respect. I am sure it is a beatifully balanced car. With the exception of top speed the RX8 beat it in all performance measurements and it is a beatifully balanced car that is over $30,000 cheaper! I can only assume the reason that it beat the RX8 was that it had nore usable torque for everyday driving. This seems strange to me as your magazine seems to be aimed at performance orientated drivers.
I guess I must be biased!
Anyway once again thanks for the contribution.
Firstly thank you for responding to us directly in this thread. I have since purchased the magazine and read it thoroughly.
I still have 2 points to make.
The reason the car is as beatifully balanced as it is is the weight but more importantly the compact dimensions of the rotary. Yes it is lacking torque but surely a better solution is to get them to put in a 16b or turbo the existing motor. Any other solution destroys the entire point of the car.
I have not driven the Z4 so you guys are one up on me in that respect. I am sure it is a beatifully balanced car. With the exception of top speed the RX8 beat it in all performance measurements and it is a beatifully balanced car that is over $30,000 cheaper! I can only assume the reason that it beat the RX8 was that it had nore usable torque for everyday driving. This seems strange to me as your magazine seems to be aimed at performance orientated drivers.
I guess I must be biased!
Anyway once again thanks for the contribution.
03-11-2004, 06:02 PM
#24
New Member
Originally posted by michael taylor
Oh, and of course we tested it with the spare tyre. we tested all cars as they'd be presented to an owner. Some cars had no spare, but everything that had one was tested with one.
that's only fair.
As for F*&$ing idiots, who develops a chassis to have no spare when they know full well it will be sold with one?
Oh, and of course we tested it with the spare tyre. we tested all cars as they'd be presented to an owner. Some cars had no spare, but everything that had one was tested with one.
that's only fair.
As for F*&$ing idiots, who develops a chassis to have no spare when they know full well it will be sold with one?
I still stand by my point that you have not research the cars enough before testing it.