rx8 - smooth!

I went for my first track day at Willowbank (QLD Raceway) on Saturday. What an absolute blast of a day!

Impressions:

The RX-8 was the most admired car there which considering the other cars there felt pretty good.

This was my first time around a track in a serious way. I went on the Mazda Pre Purchase drive day but that was just play in comparison to this. Holy **** it is hard on the cars. By the end of the day the tyres had a few heat blisters on them and you absoutely hammer the brakes. As this was my first time on the track I was pretty conservative with the car. The thought of phoning the wife to say I had totalled a $66,000 car was in my mind. So what is it like to drive out there? It is nothing like being on the normal road!! The car felt really nice and easily controllable at the limit. The rotary motor is built for racing! We have a really flat powerband which means as long as it is at 5,000 rpm or above that there are no flat spots to worry about.
At the end of the day they let the kids hop in the vehicles with you as passengers and go round for some warmish laps - A pace car was out the front. When we were doing this I swapped cars with a mate who has a Subaru B4. Between 3,500 & 5,000 this car is a dog! (turbo lag) My mate was grinning from ear to ear when he gave me the keys back to the RX-8!

For those that know the track my best time was 1.13.16. With some experinence I reckon about 1.06 is doable. Practice makes perfect.

Overall a brilliant day. I will go again but not for a few more months as it is too hard on the car to do this every month.

Maybe we could get a few track first timer RX-8 owners together for this day plus some of the guys who could show us how to do it. How cool would that look? The other thing that was interesting was that in the 3.5 years that they have been doing this they have only had 2 totals one of these was a vehicle fire. This track is pretty safe!

AMG

I thought CAMS did away with passengers, even with a pace car. Insurance premiums following the Eastern creek icncident have sky rocketed and as a result CAMS has knuckled down with their rulings.

rpm_pwr

QR is a AAA track and so CAMS dont get involved with much there.

RX8-smooth, well done sounds like you had a blast! I was going to bring the rx-7 out but I got held up. Lucky actually because it turned into real engine lunching weather by mid-day. So given that you think there might be another 7 seconds to be had can we say you weren't pushing too hard?

-pete

rx8 - smooth!

RPM-PWR

Spot on CAMS are not involved at this track.
Taking the kids out was SAFE. We basically lapped at 60k and had a few squirts occasionally. They loved it.

The conditions were NOT car friendly. My cars external temp guage was showing 42 degrees at one point!
You are right I wasn't pushing to the limit mainly due to my lack of experience plus I was aware conditions were not car friendly. I kept a really close eye on the temp guage. It didn't move. The car handled it brilliantly. My mates B4 was pinging at the end of his second session. Some other cars were starting to look sick out there (Alfas and a Corvette)

As I said an awesome day and I will return in a few months. You really can't experience your car until you have taken it to the track. BTW When I got back to Brisbane this guy tried to out gun me coming off a roundabout. I gave a quick squirt & thought why bother I could kill him anytime I want plus this is the street. Anyway he went past and through the next corner and FLASH he got caught by a speed camera!! I couldn't stop laughing!!

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

Wow - I am envious. I really want to get out there. I would have come out to at least watch if I hadn't had earlier commitments.

I took mine out just to watch when I first got it, and it attracted lots of attention. But would be even better to take it on the track.

I managed consistent 1:07's on street tyres in the Commodore SS, so if you reckon 1:06's are doable then that is great news. I did consistent 1:02's with slicks.

7 seconds is a lot though. I feel the '8 would eat the Commodores for lunch through the corners, but I know they would pass me on the straights.

The AAA thing must be why they now let passengers in for easy laps. I would love to take my kids for a spin.

Did you have any problems other than the tyres? Did you get any brake fade? Did you put special brake fluid in before you went?

Good on ya! Well done!

Cheers,
Hymee.

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

BTW - The other "total" was a HSV that spun coming out of turn 6 and he put it into the wall. Argued "Driver Training" to his insurance, and they paid it out. I think the "loop-hole" has now been closed as far as insurance goes.

It really gives me the irrates though. If you drive stupid on the street and wreck your car, you would get fined, but your insurance will pay you. If you do it legally in a "safe" place in a controlled environment - then you are not covered. Arrg.

Cheers,
Hymee.

rpm_pwr

hehe the corvettes are like a TVR club - you can't have all members' cars working at the same time

Sounds like I made the right choice, but bear in mind that Mazda (like a lot of manufacturers) dont use linear temperature gauges. So when the gauge does start to move above dead centre - you panic!

-pete

rpm_pwr

Can you imagine the chaos if they let people use the back straight? There's enough people losing their brakes on the sprint track. There's too many variables / too many risks for regular insurance companies to cover race days. Having said that, Shannons covered me for track days when I was with them. I'm switching back to them next renewal time anyway.

-pete

rx8 - smooth!

Hymee,

I was thinking more like 1.07. I got to this figure by looking at what the guys I went with were doing. First guy was doing low 1.05 with a modded WRX which kicks out 207kw. No way imho are we going to hang in with that. My other mate had the B4 which I drove on the play laps with the kids. It felt slower plus I know on the straight I could pull away from him - marginally. He was pushing up on me on the twisties so I let him by. After that he ended up getting 1.09 times. I reckon that if I really pushed the RX-8 through the twisties I would be somewhere between the two times. I just need to get more experience.
The brakes were not a problem as my key thought for the day was to be really ginger on corner entry speeds so I was not pushing the envelope in this area.
I am basically a novice and would prefer to learn this stuff safely rather than crash bang oh dear!
The handling on the B4 after the RX-8 felt absolutely s*** ! The only thing which could make me wrong on this idea of mine is how much grunt we can give out of corners in comparison to AWD cars.
I certainly didn't put in any special brake fluid maybe I should get some advice from you before I do this again.

I bet you cannot wait to get out there now!

rx8 - smooth!

By the way I work in the insurance industry so I know how ridiculous the insurance companies attitudes are.

They are like a flock of sheep if 1 says no they go BAAH oh no we won't do that either. I know I am bashing my own industry but it deserves it!

rpm_pwr

lol I hope your friend with the Liberty doesnt read this thread

MadMAX

The liberty is a great tourer... but it ain't no sports car...
I am suprised that the Liberty got away through the twisty bits. Would have expected the 8 to easily match it.

rx8 - smooth!

I'm sure if I pushed the RX 8 I would have left the Liberty but as I said I was going cautiously and my friend was really pushing his car.

Give me a few more goes though and different story.........

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

Yeah - I know what you are saying about the insurance. I feel there should be some sort of option, where we could pay a small additional premium for a day (say $50 tops), and pay a large excess - say $1500. That way we still would have some incentive not to write the car off.

I think it is irresponsible if we are discouraged from undertaking this sort of activity. It has a number of benefits...

1 - We learn more about car control
2 - We get it out of our system (yeah - it only lasts so long)
3 - Keep the economy bubbling along with our mods (or repairs )

Like you said, you didn't feel the need to waste the that guy on the round-a-bout afterwards.

People say it is not a HP circuit. But of course it helps. One of my LS1 mates got into the 59's a few times. On a cruise one day I was keeping up him though through the twisties when my '8 was only new.

I want to get out there again. But I promised....

Regards brake fluid - in the Holden we had fairly severe problems. The brakes would go off after 1 or 2 laps. This happens when the brake fluid boils, and bubbles get in the system. Also - once the fluid boils, it loses its "good" properties.

So how do you stop it from boiling?

1 - Use fluid that has a higher boiling point.
2 - Better pads (more to do with stopping power)
3 - Effect greater cooling - i.e. air ducts
4 - Bigger calipers that can absorb/disipate more heat, and not get as hot (doing less effective work).

That is about the order of expense (fluid cheapest, discs/calipers really dear). The 59s Commodore guy spent about $5k on a 2nd hand set of BIG harrops for the front of his car. Then he had to get bigger wheels (19's) to fit over them (he was already using 18's), then a new set of slicks to fit the bigger wheels...

One of the reasons I stopped going was I was going to keep spending to much. It does wear the car out a bit over time as well.

BTW - when you said you had blistering tyres... But you said you weren't pushing it too much. You sure it wasn't just feathering / marbled pretty bad?

Here is one of my slicks that blistered - pretty badly - on my last track day before I got the '8:





And they were BRAND NEW!

Cheers,
Hymee.

PS - Did I say I want to get out there again

rx8 - smooth!

Hymee,

My tyres look nothing like that!! They just had a few heat bubbles on them. This reminds me of what one of the drivers said on the Mazda Demo Day. I asked what he really thought of the RX-8 and he didn't say that much except he mentioned that when Holden had a similar day for the Monaro that the tyres were wasted by lunchtime and they had to change them. The RX-8 tyres held up pretty well - Less weight & torque must be the reason why.

Back to the point I reckon I probably took 5 to 10 k worth of tyre life off on the day. Well worth it in my opinion but not what you want to do every month. I also suspect that your brake problem would not be as severe in the RX-8 due to the fact that you are stopping less weight and our brake discs are a pretty decent size.

Let me know if you are going in the next month or so & I will come along to spectate. If you can wait a few more months I will come back for another go.

Regards,


Steve

rpm_pwr

Hymee, are they a very soft compound? They look shredded! I've got 3 track days and 15,000km's out of my regular street rubber at the moment. I think lighter cars are a lot easier on tyres. Same for brakes, it took 8 laps of 1:04-1:05's to overheat the regular street pads. By that time the tyres had overheated anyway

I don't think you need to spend big money to have a good time at track days. You can wipe a LOT of time off just learning t to drive better.

-pete

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

Yeah - those tyres were stuffed - midway though my first session!

They where medium compund. They completely delaminated. And it happened to a mates car as well (a black clubby if you are a regular). Before they went bang it was awesome grip!

Thankfully they were replaced / refunded by Tyre Tech. They were very helpful. Aparently a bad batch ended up here.

Cheers,
Hymee.

AMG

Hymee, what brand were they?

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

AMG,

Yokohama. I guess you wont touch them with a barge pole after seeing this! I was assured this was not normal :saracastic smilie:

Cheers,
Hymee.

PS - If I go out "sprinting" again I won't go with slicks - apart from the cost, but the administrators decided to put any cars on slicks in a higher "racing car" category. So some of us decided it would be better to stay in the street cars. Some semi-comps might be the go. But slicks are worth 5 seconds on that track (over street tyres).

racerdave

Hymee... even though the set may have been defective, had you put a gentle heat cycle on them before running them hard?

I worked on a road race car that was hard on its tires and we got far better longevity out of them (and far less graining) by heat-cycling them properly -- 1 *easy* warm-up lap then 1 *moderate* lap, then take them off and let them sit for 24 hours. (A technique advocated by the Goodyear tire engineers on-site)

A bit tedious, but the tires performed better over a longer time.

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

racerdave,

Wow - that is great advice. I didn't really have the opportunity to do that, but I would have made an attempt if I had been advised. What about race cars when they put fresh green rubber on in a pit stop? They don't seem to go out that easy on them, and surely harder that I would have been able to on a street car.

Great advice all the same!

Cheers,
Hymee.

racerdave

Hymee... the race cars that put on green tires, they're a bit different than us.

Well, that's assuming you're like me and want to get a lot of life out of a set of tires -- um, excuse me, tyres -- (sorry, Yank here) :D

So where we might want to get 1, 2, 3 maybe even 4 track days out of a set, the "big boys" only need them to go to the next pit stop before they discard them. So longevity really isn't a concern for them.

A sticker can give more absolute grip once the mold release compound is worn off.

But even the big boys will put on scuffs for better wear from time-to-time as well. Remember Williams in 2002? They often put new tires on one end and scuffs on the other... because they abused the scuffed end of the car more than the other, and needed them to last through the stint.

So I don't know about you, but I don't have the world's biggest tire budget, so I try to scuff them in and put them away before using them hard to squeeze more life out of them.

Oh, and I need to add that initially, when the tire engineer recommended scuffing the tyres after seeing bad wear , I was skeptical. However, after following their advice, we saw much better wear patterns and I became a believer.

That help at all?

Cheers!

--Dave

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

Dave,

Yeah - I reckon it is good advice for longevity.

My problem was that those tyres sh|t themselves halfway through a 7 lap session!

Cheers,
Hymee.