labrat

My feeling is that tyres, tyre wear and tyre pressure have a lot to do with it. While I'll admit that the OEM tyres were excellent dry weather tyres (albeit noisy), their wet performance left a lot to be desired, especially after about 20,000km of wear. I know I'll get rubbished for bringing up again the Fuldas I have on mine, but although perhaps I've sacrificed a little turn in (perhaps), the wet weather performance is excellent. I've never felt anything less than totally secure. It could be that being a German tyre, it is designed for European sumer (read wet) conditions. I've yet to experience the DSC switching on in the wet, even when I've messed up taking a corner. This car makes a mediocre driver like me look good!

Revolver

No sweat. Just bear in mind that quite a few of us have had the car a while now, including StratoMike, so it's dangerous to make assumptions about experience level.

spaldo

I can't believe that you get DSC to kick in, you must really lack control in the way you drive. The only time that I have got DSC to kick in is when I have purposely been doing something counterintuitive, which was under the controlled conditions of the level 2 Murcotts course.
As far as driving without DSC on, I think you are crazy unless on a track. It's purpose is to save you from the unexpected and unpredictable and of course, driver error!

Cromax

Fair enough ... why is everyone so touchy here though?

My assumption was based on the post, and not the length of time he's been on the forum. Apologies if I offended.

Ottog

My two cents worth,

I never turn my DSC off except when on the track. It saved me from embarassment a few times when I first bought the car. Three years experience in the car and some track days with great instructors has relegated it to a passive bit of insurance.

Come to think of it, my last track day started out wet and fined up duing the caurse of the morning. I ended up leaving the DSC on and still took 4 seconds off my best previous lap time. From this I surmise that if you are half competent behind the wheel DSC on isn't necessarily your enemy on the track either unless you are want total freedom to throw the car around.

Cheers.... Otto

Domza

Driving like a granny ensures that DSC leaves you alone.

DSC is awakened quite easily compared to a few BMWs ive driven, and when it has cut in on a BMW, it does it with slightly more grace and less "omfg, he's loss traction hit the panic buttons" reaction.

I have a fairly good ability to control my car, but like I said, if you nurse it around a corner you are never going to need DSC, which is obviously your thing.

DaveCM203

The car was trying to save your a$$. When the back started to come around you hit the brakes. That is not good. You were out of traction and you just took more away by breaking. On top of that you changed the attitude of the chassis. A slight throttle lift and counter steering should have worked. If that wouldn't have worked, you were going around anyway. As for being under your traction threshold, it is a public road. I have hit slick areas that were never before due to someone losing oil, anti-freeze, transmition fluid,...etc.

As for someone cracking a rim as a result of the dsc, I don't buy that at all. He hit a curb or a bad pothole or he had crap rims to begin with.

The only time mine is realy noticable is when I am playing around. Most of the time it will flash and that is the only way that I know that it actualy did anything. That and the throttle response may be a bit slow for a sec.

If the dsc seems very intrusive there may be something wrong with it, the suspension, tires, or your driving style.

I could be wrong. I am not an expert. Just talking from personal experiance.

Revolver

The above quoted (and edited) comments also accord with my experience.

With respect to Otto's comments, I generally agree. Leaving DSC on will still permit clean fast laps. However, turning it off on the track does allow faster lap times again, which the quicker guys at the Nats have demonstrated. The chassis feels freed up in tighter corners when DSC might otherwise be working. Of course, you've got to be quick enough to catch it or jump on the brakes if and when the tail overtakes the front.

With respect to Spaldo's comments, I tend to disagree that merely lacking "control in the way you drive" will cause DSC to activate. Loss of traction can be caused by all kinds of things when pushing the car a little harder, incl. oil, ice, water, etc. Further, simply getting to the car's limit and pressing that little bit further will cause it to kick in as a gentle reminder that you've exceeded the car's grip. IMHO, that's not a lack of control but merely exploring the car's ability.

Cromax

You only drive on straight roads don't you!

auzoom

I'd like to add that when you EXPECT the rear to come around (ie forgetting to turn the DSC off) and it starts to, but then stops you...you tend to end up going places you didn't intend.

Domza

This is what i mean. and it does it very abruptly.

Domza

so true. Look at his location. You take an American car designer to any where else in the world, and their mind will literally explode.

auzoom

Cool...Its what I meant as well ! And as you said, BMW and the likes manage to do the same without the "abruptness"

DaveCM203

Uh, no. Could you please explain as to why you think that.

I have yet to take my 8 to the track. But have been in other cars many times. I also live in central North Carolina. A lot of great roads. I also live reasonably close the the Blue Ridge Mtns. Ever heard of Deals Gap (or Tail of the Dragon).

You cannot make a statement like that and not explain why you think that way. That is just lame. There are people on here all the time that pretend like they know what they are talking about and sound like idiots. At least I explained my opinion. If yours differs then explain instead of making a stupid blanket statement like that.

Also, I was speaking from personal experiance as I stated in the original post. I am not a pro racer. Never claimed to be. Doubt I ever will be.

Cromax

Hello there again Dave ... sorry you had to have a cry to get your point across!

... Deals Gap ... that's the road that goes between NC and TN yes?

My "stupid" blanket statement still stands.

You have to understand, that some of our main highways have sections in it that are far more twisty than Deals Gap. To get into Adelaide from Melbourne you used to have to go through 4 lane road with quite treacherous corners, and then you had devils elbow where a lot of people were taken out by semi-trailers (kinda like playing russian roulette). I have a road on a regular run of mine with about 30 steep nasty twisty corners ... where the road's very narrow and there's either a wall of rocks to your right or a cliff about a foot from the road to the left. Adding to that, Deals Gap would actually be maintained properly and would have good quality tarmac ... us down here? Well, we have 20 million people in a land mass the same size as the United States ... put two and two together

I wasn't having a go at you and no one here's a pro racer (I myself am far from it) ... it was more the fact that you came in gun-ho with such arrogant statements, when you don't really understand, even though you think you do!

Domza

There's your first problem Kal :p

*rolls eyes*

Domza

QFTW

Cromax doing the Aussie representin'.

Cromax

LOL ... she's no hoon, but she can definately drive!

DaveCM203

No, not a cry. I honestly wanted you to explain why you said that. You still failed to explain yourself. I do not know what roads you drive on have to do with answering my question. So I ask you again, why do you think I only drive on straight roads? I honestly might learn something. As I said, I am no pro.

I was simply stating that the actions he was attempting to take would have had him spinning out without the dsc. When you are out of traction hitting the brakes do not help. They make it worse. I also tried to come up with some reasons as to why the car got lose when normaly it would not. I also stated some possible reasons the dsc may seem over agressive.

I have had the dsc save my *** when I hit something slick in the road unexpectedly and a time or two when I was playing around when I realy should not have been. That is what it is there for. And if the roads are as poorly maintained as you said, that is a good possibility. If you can show me how I was wrong in my statement, I would appreciate it.

DaveCM203

Cromax,
Check out the website for Tail of the Dragon. It is a bit tighter than I think you think it is. Tractor trailers get stuck in the curves and have taken out dozens of cars. You are correct in that the road is in pretty good shape. It will make you want to drive it. Are there any footage of the road you talk of. I would like to see it. Maybe it will make us jealous.

I am not trying to be sarcastic. I am serious.

Revolver

Dave,

I appreciate your attitude and as posted previously think you're right in most of the things you've said. I've also seen video footage of the Dragon and agree it's a devilishly twisty bit of road.

Unfortunately, some make assumptions which are often no better than wild guesses.

I've never had my DSC kick in "abruptly" and it's never caused me to have an unforeseen change of direction. IMHO, it works very well with the car's chassis.

DaveCM203

Thanks Revolver.

jones75254

iTrader: (2)

Personally, i dont like having the DSC engaged unless there is bad weather, period. Takes away too much from "free style" driving IMO, also i dont like the feeling of a 3000 pound machine locking up when i start to slide a lil bit, call me old school (ppsshht im only 29) but i like having somewhat control of how i compensate for a skid rather than a puter telling/making me do.

DaveCM203

Yea, traction control sucks. That is why they outlawed it in F1, NASCAR, and others.