blackenedwings

Just to make a thread for people asking what Jeff has under his compressor housing so Kane can have his thread back. For what its worth I'm curious too and I -have- the turbo.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

would be easy enough to figure out and I'm really surprised no-one has done it . Just measure the bore of the intake housing and see if it lines up with the wheel inducer diameter for a 3071 .

tubingchamp

iTrader: (3)

Sneak under his hood?

Easy_E1

iTrader: (2)

Let's hypothetically say MM may have a 3076. But that doesn't mean that any of the MM upgrades are the 3076.

blackenedwings

Thats exactly my concern. The compressor map for the 3071 says I should not attempt to hit 400 whp with it, but if its really a 3076... I don't even care if I'm sworn to secrecy, I'm just interested for myself.

Salamanth

So wait, you don't actually know what turbo is on your car? That's a great idea!

Flashwing

Let's just say if this car breaks the laws of physics then consider me a witness.

Not that my word amounts to much but it's one none the less. I've badgered Jeff for a looooong time to release his dyno sheets showing his max power output. It was only a short time ago I realized it would simply result in beating a hornets nest with a baseball bat. Sometimes its just best to keep things to yourself.

Salamanth

As per MM's response in your build thread...

They don't make a 90 trim .85 A/R 3076R.

This is the corresponding compressor map for the 3071R, sourced directly from the Garrett website, along with a line corresponding to 460 g/s of airflow (~60.84 lb/min), which would *maybe* net you 400 rwhp based on a fudge factor of 1.2 g/s per horsepower.

blackenedwings

I know its a 3071 compressor housing with a machined compressor back plate. It spools quickly and I have 0 complaints about the behavior of the turbo with my current setup... my only question is when the turbo stops being ideal and where that upper cap is. If the compressor wheel is different its not something that Jeff advertises on the site. If Jeff doesn't expand on the nature of the modifications to the turbo then I will only be able to make assumptions on the turbo by turning up the boost and seeing the point of diminishing returns. Compared to multiple other companies who have marketted eBay turbos of unknown specification at least this one is a quality product.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

The problem as I see it is that Jeff has repeatedly claimed that "his" car makes 400+ whp and his MAF is above 400g/s . This is out of line with what a 3071 should be capable of so this has us wondering .
Why he just doesn't post his dyno and say here is what mine gets with an upgraded 3076 wheel (but the stock upgrade is a 3071) or something along those lines is beyond me .
What does he have to lose , surely he is not worried about sales as that seems to be a dead duck anyway .

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

I have "claimed" nothing. (BTW - I've posted logs with my MAF waaaaaay into the 400's.)
I am merely pointing out, for those that are interested, that the upward limits of what can be done with this motor and with that turbo have not been satisfactorily examined by those in a position to do so (except for one or three of us).

What I am hoping to do is get people thinking for a change, rather than quoting, parroting, speculating and asserting based on tangential information.
Really thinking - not theorizing.

There are quite a few very vocal and very self-assured "experts" on this forum with absolutely no first-hand knowledge in what they postulate here. Some of those individuals haven't even ridden in an RX-8, let alone turbocharged a Renesis.

shazy

/\ oooo I want to know. Tell me who

Salamanth

I've never claimed to be an expert, if you can point out where I'm wrong or correct my thinking, I would actually really appreciate it if you would.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

I wasn't pointing out any bad sleuthing on your part (though you are missing a couple of parts of the formula, but I've already been through all of that a dozen times before on this forum and I'm not really interested in beating my head against that wall any longer).

I was concerning myself with individuals that are much more forceful in their assertions with much less pertinent data in their portfolio.

Salamanth

I think that's the closest I've ever heard you come to giving anyone a compliment MM...

blackenedwings

You have posted logs of the MAF readings and you have discussed in person the whp you dynoed at at various psi. My only question is do you have the same turbo I do. If the answer is yes, then it could be made from cheese as far as I care... I'll start seeing the limits myself as I continue with the car. If you have a different compressor wheel than I do, and the one I have cannot reach those same values due to mechanical limitation, I would like to know ahead of time. That's all.

To some extent there simply isn't enough information to do anything other than theorize. We have a mathematical problem without enough information to solve.

intake temp + airflow + turbo = 400 whp (obviously missing a few things but you get the idea)

We know your MAF reading is 460 g/sec or whatnot... the blank spot that says "turbo" doesn't make sense with the unmodified 3071R compressor map. That leads to the conclusion that the turbo is NOT a standard 3071R. Your intake temps are practically ambient, but that still doesn't explain the fact that 400 whp is off the compressor chart for a 3071R.

My question is simple... is Mazda Maniac running a Mazda Maniac upgrade or a special one-off job? I think its fair enough to ask that as a customer who has the turbo. I don't even want the specs, just a yes or no would be fabulous.

rotarygod

If he were running charge cooling such as water or methanol before the turbo, as opposed to after, it could have the same effect as shifting the compressor map over a bit. This is a bit deceiving as you could stare at a map on paper all day and not see what is actually happening since that compressor wasn't tested (mapped) with water/methanol running through it. If you did test/map a compressor with water or methanol running through it, the map would appear to be a bit different. Injecting water or methanol after it wouldn't change a thing in regards to compressor map. The key would be in doing it before.

That's my guess.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

8Club is like a tarded Energizer bunny, it keeps going, ang going, and going ...

..... right over the cliff

so much ado over nothing. You bought an aftermarket turbo kit. If you want to go to the next level then you go back to the supplier, inform them where you're trying to go, if they can get you there they'll price it out and send you the parts or make recommendations when you pay. Otherwise going off on your own means just that. It's unreasonable to expect them to just generously handover all of their kit design details, let alone the specs on their personal vehicle. This person is in business for a reason, and in a field where shameless copycatting and backstabbing is the norm.

Symbioticgenius

Wouldn't it be completely possible that MM sells a 3071, and has a 3076 on his personal car? He presents data for a 3071 cause as a vendor thats what he sells\supplies etc.

yet for personal use, he has a 3076?
I see absolutely nothing wrong with that, if it is in fact the case, cause what he does with his car is his business.

Kinda like the smart drug dealers that know better than to use their own product, so they sell it. In his case he's using a higher cut coke

I pose a different question. Is MM running Ethanol?

blackenedwings

There is no "ado" as far as I'm concerned. I'm not asking for kit design details, as I said quite clearly the turbo could be made from government cheese constructed in a van down by the river. I don't care. I don't care personally about the specs on his personal vehicle either... I do care if the product I have will reach the "next level" without modification or not, and that is a A) simple question B) reasonable to ask the vendor who provided it.

For anybody else that has some emotional stake in Jeff breaking 400 whp or whatever, I don't care.

Kane

iTrader: (1)

Just to add - MM also advertises the turbo is capable:

http://www.mazdamaniac.com/upgrade/M...20Upgrade.html

So I think Blackenedwings question is legit.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

As I mentioned before - you just need to measure the inlet bore diameter to check what wheel you have .

3071 Inducer 53.1 Exducer 71.0
3076 Inducer 57.0 Exducer 76.2


So the bore on the 3071 will be approx. 54mm Dia.

The bore on the housing if machined to fit the 3076 wheel will be approx. 58mm Dia.


Anybody out there got a MM turbo they can measure ?

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

by how much do you think ? 15-20% more flow ?

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

i dont think you can inject w/m before the turbo? So rule that one out.
Doesnt our maf top out at 360 something? And if that is correct then would he not have to rescale? On a rescale would the g/sec have the same meaning?
400+hp to the wheels on pump gas? Does that mean exhaust port work?
+ this is on the rebuild that was done with left over parts?
OD

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

That depends on how accurate the rescale is .
Some of the MAF readings people report around here are obviously way off .


For my setup I know that 350g/s will get me around 340whp . I don't really know if my maf scale is accurate or not but I do know how it relates to how much power I make .
That make sense ?