zoom44

“The RX-8 should NEVER have all seasons” “All-seasons are a compromise” “All seasons are worse in the rain that a summer tire” “All seasons suck” “you’re an idiot for choosing all season” “if you can’t afford a proper summer/winter setup you shouldn’t own a sports car!”

Really guys? You’re really certain that there is no reason ever for someone to choose an all season tire over a summer only or summer/winter package? One thing you should learn as you grow up is that while there are certainties in this world, for almost every decision you make there is a different decision made by someone else to choose WHAT WORKS FOR THEM and their situation. It’s hardly ever as cut and dry as you might think.

When reading some of the comments the other day in the All- Season choice thread I was reminded of a quote from Crocodile Dundee “ That’s not a knife… this is a knife”


Because there are definitely times when a bigger knife is what you need. But that big croc skinner won’t be of much help if your hoping for a red handled multi-function tool with a toothpick. It also isn’t as easy to carry. Just as the semi-auto tactical rifle may be the best choice for most situations, sometimes you want a pistol to carry.

So what does that have to do with tires? Well the choice between summer and all seasons is the same really. Sometimes one will do but there are many reasons and situations where the other is the proper choice. With one caveat-

ALL-SEASONS ARE NOT A PROPER REPLACEMENT FOR WINTER/SNOW TRACTION TIRES WHEN YOU NEED THEM. If you live in one of the snowier areas and you regularly have to travel in large quantities of snow only a snow tire is the proper choice for those times of the year. There are several threads in the series 1 and 2 stickies for choosing appropriate snow tires.

Picking a tire should be about how, where and when you will be driving. That includes the weather you will face throughout the year. You also I’m sure have a budget to think about. Plus you have to think about what kind of storage you have for tires and car. If you are running a hot weather tire and it suddenly dips to freezing and your car is outside you may want to wait until it warms a bit. It could be unsafe driving on those hard frozen tires.

So on to why I chose my tires. First I live near Portland Oregon in the Pacific Northwest of the U.S. It rains here. ALLOT. Not as much as a little farther north in Seattle or even a little east and west of us in the mountains but it’s a bit ridiculous. The forests here are actually temperate rainforests. I need a tire that can handle traction well when there is plenty of water on the road. We also have distinct rainy and dry season. When it’s the dry season we get NO rain. So I need a tire that has good grip on dry roads but can handle plenty of water when needed. The roads I generally travel on are generally well maintained but often are gravelly especially in the winter. We do have a considerable amount of potholes on certain roads. One which snuck up on me and killed one tire last year.

Mostly wet but when it’s dry, it is dry. When that rain comes back the first month the roads are kind of oily. Plus I drive an RX-8 one of the best handling sports cars in the world and I don’t want to give up lateral grip performance. I need it to turn like an RX. So right now you’re thinking “he needs a high performance summer tire that has great wet traction.” Well that would be a choice except, we do occasionally get some freezing temps and light snow here. We’re talking an inch to three. Cold days for 3-4 days at a time. Plus my driving habits include going to work in the afternoon and not getting off until 10 or midnight sometimes. I do have a garage at home but not a work. I can drive to work in 40-50 degree weather then find it’s below freezing and has snowed an inch when it’s time to go home.

Now there are folks saying to themselves “yup he needs a good set of summer tires with some snows and steelies on the car for a few months”. But there are more things to consider. I do have a garage but there’s not much storage space in it after we get the cars, bikes, work bench and assorted sundries in there. We have two cars. Plus there is the expense of buying another full set of tires and wheels for both cars. There are also the elevation changes.

The area from the coast to Mt Hood goes through many drastic elevation changes. Just going over the “West Hills” from where I live into Portland proper is a change of 1000 feet. There are plenty of times when down here at 300 feet its 45 and rainy but the buses are using chains to drive through the snow and freezing temps over those hills.

Plus there is the range between us and the coast. The top is at 1500 or so feet. A few years ago on a warm, sunny, dry early November day my Dad was visiting and I decided to take him to see the Oregon coast. By the time I got ½ way up it had turned to gray, rainy and in the 30s Fahrenheit. ¾ of the way to the top of the mountains it had turned to mid to high 20s and snow. There was a good 3 inches at the top. Now on the way down conditions got better and better of course and the coast was beautiful. But now we had to drive back. I’m glad I wasn’t on summer tires that day.

My choice for a tire has to have the grip I have confidence in on dry roads plus retain as much of that as possible when it’s raining. A summer tire would do but what about those occasions when I come home from work and the weather has turned. The summer tire won’t do. So I should pick a dedicated winter tire too. BUT I only need that occasionally. This isn’t the Northeast or the Midwest and I don’t live or drive most of the time in the hills here.

Do I really need to switch tires for those occasions? If it’s really bad I can take the bus home (or to work for that matter) so I really only need a tire that can do the work for a short amount of time in the light snow situation. Plus I don’t want to worry about getting stuck in a situation that I have to drive and I don’t have them on. Like the trip to the coast. Plus if I can find one tire that will do those things it will save me some in the bottom line and not take up space in the garage with extras. That is not COMPROMISE in the negative sense that some of you have used it. I don’t even agree with the negative connotation use of that word. It is looking at what I need and finding the tool that will work.

From that point I started looking at tires. I looked at high performance and ultra-high performance tires from 5 major brands that I feel from past research make a quality product. First I checked to see if there were ”summer” tires that had mixed in new compounds to allow them to work at lower temps. The answer was not really. I also checked on the pricing of winter plus wheel packages to see if I was wrong there but getting summers and those was absolutely not going to work for what I needed and stay in budget.

Then I checked the All-seasons and they seemed to be promising the best bang for the buck for my needs. There were a few good contenders and it turned out the ones I even considered to be viable candidates had all been tested against each other. I double checked the various tires stats for temperature, water, snow, nvh etc. I read the professional and the consumer reviews. I wanted to know if they really did have the grip I considered necessary and correct for my car plus would handle the rain AND still grip during those cold weather anomalies.

It turns out they did. Or at least 3 of them did. So I drove around town to see them first hand. Once I had seen them all I knew that this



The Goodyear Eagle F-1 Asymmetric All-Season was the right one for my car. The traction is better than most in the dry wet AND snow. The silica compounds keep it from becoming a brick in the cold. Plus they were the only ones that come with a 45,000 mile tread warranty. PLUS it turned out that tire rack was doing a “x amount per tire back on a card’ promo. I thought the fuss they were making about those alternating/ staggered tooth like tread blocks helping to keep the tire quiet was going to be BS but once they were on the car I realized it was no BS. These things are QUIET. The staggering actually keeps the tire from building a resonance that would other wise make them louder.

These tires checked all my boxes- the grip in rain, dry , snow , cold , speed rating(didn’t even talk about that above but that eliminated some tires)and budget plus don’t come with the concerns I had over storage and being caught with the wrong tire on. These are the right tool for the job I NEED doing. They may not be for yours and that’s ok too. One thing I do hope is that everyone takes the time and care that I did when buying new shoes for their ride and doesn’t just grab the cheapest thing that fits. Will they? No but that’s one of the reasons I want the best ones for my situation. I have had to brake, dodge, accelerate and dodge more than once in the last few years in all sorts of weather with nary a scratch. I need to trust my tires to do their job and these ones do.

And they are quiet too! Have I mentioned that? I was driving with the windows down through a parking lot a while ago that was mostly empty and I thought “that’s weird” and then realized the tires are so quiet I was hearing the car and stuff more than I used to with the old ones.

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

Quite the novel ...but as long as you are getting the performance that you want, then you have made the correct choice for you. Tire compounds have come a long way in the last 5-10 years as well....a lot of the problems with the old all seasons are not so evident now

We sure don't want tires in the NW that can't handle a lot of rain We get more than our fair share

alnielsen

iTrader: (4)

Sheesh, and I thought Rotarygod and RIWWP were long winded.
Even here in Chicago, our snowfalls are rarely over 3 inches. I live less than 100 yrds from a major 6 lane state highway and from there, the interstates are an easy access. I have never felt the need for pure snow tires for such a low slung car. If there is that much snow, the traffic is going to suck anyway, just take the day off rather than risk an accident.
I've used several sets of all season tires and they are different. The Pirelli's were great dry tires and I even did a track day with them. The Continental's were almost as good in snow as a dedicated snow tire. I also used an earlier version of GY Eagle F1's than listed by Zoom44. It was a good wet/dry tire with stiff sidewalls, just not to the extent of the Pirelli.
Now I have the Jeep for winter driving. That has A/S tires too, rather than M/T's.

Boeuf

iTrader: (2)

That's great, I like how you deleted all the other comments in the other thread, I thought forums were about people being able to debate their opinions? I guess not.

I still think AS tires are poo on sports cars and the rain argument is weak, lots of summer tires are phenomenal in the rain.

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

Personally...All seasons suck at everything compared to Summer and Winter tires

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

I think I probably pushed a raw nerve for you the other day Zoom, my apologies

I entirely agree that there is a place for all seasons. My issue was that with this topic, along with every other topic, I just hate it when someone can't articulate why they made the decision that they did or if they claim that their decision was based on factors which are completely inaccurate, fabricated, or inane.

I know I've pissed off quite a few people in my life for being willing to argue against the side that makes the least amount of sense, regardless of what my person opinion is on the topic Make sense when you put forth your reasoning, and I will never argue, regardless of whether I agree or disagree. I'll debate the validity of testing methods or whether facts are indeed accurate, but not the decision itself.



My tire decision process is quite similar to yours. Providence RI for a while (4th highest city by precipitation volume in the US), now in the Poconos (which averages higher than Providence in rain volume) ... wet grip and anti-hydroplaning are the single largest factors of my summer tire selection. Lots of tires have specs and tests on "wet traction", with Tire Rack's major failing in that they only test a wet surface. They don't test standing water of varying depths. Big difference. The Star Specs I had for a while were really good on a damp surface. Hit standing water with them and hold on.

My choice for water keeps coming back to Yokohama S.Drives. They are great if the ground is wet, and stellar for anti-hydroplaning. I have yet to feel a pair of all seasons come close to competing with them on both of these points. They also have that silica compound, and I've driven on them without much problem on dry pavement down as low as 25F. I've never tested them in the snow, and never intend to.



The problem is that we were debating a point that didn't belong in the thread in the first place. I shouldn't have let it continue, much less participated in the first place.

alnielsen

iTrader: (4)

The question in the other threat was, what is the best all season tire. Debating the merits of such a tire wasn't within the scope of that question and was off topic.
This thread was opened to debate those points.

zoom44

time and place. that wasnt it. that thread is for folks who have already made a decision to buy an all season to find what are the best all seasons to choose from. debate the vs all you want here.

zoom44

i know, right? and that's the edited version



exactly. like this and the other's I paraphrased at the top

Boeuf

iTrader: (2)

I understand but at the same time if someone doesn't know about tires and opens that thread it may be helpful for them to see both sides of the coin. AS vs summer/winter, then they can make a better educated decision. I know that's why you opened this thread but the debate is applicable in the other thread.
I'll admit that we got a bit off topic near the end.