baysj

iTrader: (1)

Does anyone care to share some knowledge about the APV and how easy it is to replace/work with.

My car threw 2 codes recently. P2004 and P2009. I tried using my access port to reset the codes to verify they were legit and the were thrown again the next time I drove the car. So from what I can tell it sounds like my APV is stuck open. I notice a slight loss of power in the low/mid end but my butt dyno might be misleading me. Other then that the car runs fine. Since the code has been thrown I haven't boosted or driven it hard so I cannot tell how the higher rpm ranges act.

My question is how easy is it to diagnose/resolve an APV issue? I have a fair amount of mechanical knowledge but I have never worked with this portion of the car. What are the most common failures that could cause this code to be thrown?

Thanks in advance for the help.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

to take the APV out, you have to take the UIM and LIM out AND move the engine a bit to the right to get enough space to dig it out.

but you should try to push your car really hard on the road, most of the time if you can get the engine hot enough the ports will unstuck itself.

but you're boosted so ... not sure how is that going to work out.

baysj

iTrader: (1)

Is the APV for each rotor mechanically linked? In other words can the aux ports be open for 1 rotor and closed for the other or is that impossible? I dont want to cause a lean out.

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

They are tied together....before you get too carried away make sure that they are actually stuck.....remove the APV motor and see if the gear will turn.....

It could be the APV motor has quit as well.....If you remove the UIM...and spray the seafoam into the aux port opennings...you should be able to clean them up enough to free them as well

Jon316G

iTrader: (1)

Watch the video in this thread to get a better idea on how the APV system works:
https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-do-yourself-forum-73/diy-troubleshoot-intake-valves-174009/

The APV cycles whenever you turn off the ignition, so you can stand near it while someone shuts the car off and listen for the valves to cycle.
HINT: the car doesn't have to be running... just turn the key to ACC and back to OFF to cycle the APV.
I've also hooked-up a 12VDC supply (like in the video) with the motor still installed and just cycled it back and forth.
Spraying Seafoam (as dannobre mentioned above) or Carb Cleaner along with cycling the APV is your best solution without removing them.

shadycrew31

iTrader: (6)

Does anyone know the parameters it uses to throw that code?

I know I have this code due to the porting we did. We ground down the valve and the port to make it much bigger, for some reason the PCM was not happy with that.

I'm guessing as the valve opens if it doesn't make it to the stopping point it throws the code. Since we didn't mess with either ends of the valve just the middle, I'm curious as to why its an issue.

it still turns the full rotation its very confusing...

Jon316G

iTrader: (1)

From the service manual:

shadycrew31

iTrader: (6)

Maybe I should read next time! Thanks man.

So I'm looking at a potential bad motor (even though it operates fine) or a short somewhere?

Jon316G

iTrader: (1)

Are you sure the valves are cycling?
Did you use a similar method as I described above in post #5?
Did you guys oil the valves before reinstalling?

Did you have the APV motor off?
If so, you should have rotated the white gear fully clockwise so the magnet is roughly at 1 'o clock.
The magnet on the white gear is used to determine the positioning... which the sensor is in the motor itself

shadycrew31

iTrader: (6)

That's most likely my issue, Guess I gotta pull that thing out again....

Also thanks for the videos when we tested the valves they helped out a bunch!

Jon316G

iTrader: (1)

No problem.
Good luck and keep us posted on your findings.

quisk

2 questions about this topic:

1. Is it accurate to assume that the 100 kmi extended engine warranty does not cover APV problems?

2. How difficult is it to remove the APV motor (to check if APV stuck) with the engine in the car?

(My RX8 is showing symptoms of APV problems - https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=213683)

Jon316G

iTrader: (1)

The warranty is for the core... the APV is part of the intake manifold.
Likely not... but couldn't hurt to ask the dealer if it came to it.

Like I mentioned above, you can cycle the APV with it still installed and hear it.
If you remove the battery box, you can see the electrical connection to the APV motor.
Simply disconnect it and apply 12VDC (not from the battery) to the motor and listen.
The video (also posted above) shows how to do that.

Now far as removing the motor... you'll have to remove the ACV and hard pipe so you can unbolt the jet-air bleed bracket. Then you can unbolt the APV motor.
But usually the APV will throw a CEL if it doesn't open/close properly.

quisk

Thanks, Jon.

Keith

shadycrew31

iTrader: (6)

Code is still there. I move the white gear for the valve's the magnet is int he 2 o'clock position and the valve's i believe are fully shut.

Do you think this could have anything to do with the porting? I feel like I've exhausted every other option.

Thanks for the help!

shadycrew31

iTrader: (6)

Jon I saw a TSB out there which involved taking out the gear and moving it to the 1 o'clock position.

I'm not sure if they are using a new gear or not, I am going to give this a shot I'll let yall know what happens!

Highway8

iTrader: (11)

Just to be clear. When replacing the APV must the white gear be rotated fully clockwise to the 1 o'clock position before putting the AP back on?

I hope the answer is no, otherwise I must pull it back off before finishing my motor install today.

shadycrew31

iTrader: (6)

I think the answer is already in this thread... try post #9

Highway8

iTrader: (11)

I saw that but it was 6am when I was reading it. I was hoping for a different answer because I wondered before I put it together if it needed to be clocked but I figured because there is a sensor in the motor and the magnet on the gear, that clocking it would not be required.

Plus I had asked someone else about replacing the APV and they simply said, unbolt it and put the knew one on.

Highway8

iTrader: (11)

Nevermind, this is no big deal. I can easily get the APV motor replaced from the wheel well. Who said you have to remove the LIM?

As far as clocking the APV. You need to check 2 things. It is said above, but I want to add and reiterate.

The white gear must be turned clockwise until it stops and the magnet must be in the 1-2 o-clock position. If you find (like I did) that the magnet is in the 6-7 o-clock position, then you must have had the gear off and it was put on 180 degrees out. So take the little screw loose, turn the gear 180 degrees and tighten it down, It will only go on 2 ways, so its easy.

TheWulf

iTrader: (4)

Is there a reason this wouldnt be ok from the battery?
What about a computer power supply or a 12V wall adapter from some electronics?

Carbon8

iTrader: (4)

Has this been verified that full clockwise rotation and setting at 1 o'clock the valves are closed.

Please reference
https://www.rx8club.com/trouble-shoo...0/#post4431127

As I am stuck

Thanks

GeorgeH

iTrader: (2)

Can anybody shed some light on removing the APV motor from the wheel well? I need to check mine (possibly clocked wrong during a recent rebuild; getting P2004) but one of the bolts holding the motor to the LIM is blocked by what looks like a hard coolant line. Is there some trick, or do I need to remove the hard line as well?

TIA.

Carbon8

iTrader: (4)

Hard line is a vacuum line that goes off your TB part of the intake down into the LIM itself, it is secured by two bolts, one on the LIM one on the tstat housing.

If the APV motor was not positioned correctly during instal then their is literally nothing you can do about it, unless you luck out and they put the gear on 180 degrees opposite the LIM needs to be disassembled to change it (which requires pulling the motor again).

Although IDK why a tech would even touch the APV motor, unless you got a new LIM to as they should have be able to just swap it over no problems

GeorgeH

iTrader: (2)

^Thanks. I didn't have this done by a tech, did it at Pineapple Racing with the help of some fellow rotor heads (Rob doesn't work on cars). When we did the swap we put everything through a parts washer so we did disassemble the APV. We were careful putting it back together, so I am hopeful that it's just that the gear is off by 180 degrees, or that the motor/sensor is bad, so that I can avoid a worst case scenario.