Jaguar

Anyone ever use ethanol in a rotary? I have a friend that makes his own and creates a 40:60 mix of gasoline and ethanol. It is really easy to make and only costs about 15 cents a gallon. He distills it down to about 190 proof through solar energy. And it is legal. All he has to do is to apply for a free permit from the ATF and denature it with a drop of gasoline. Ethanol is approved by the EPA. Also I know that about 40% of the cars in Brazil use 100% ethanol with no problems. It typically takes him about 1 hour a month to make 20 gallons.

I told that it will run on all vehicles here in the US and will in some cases give better gas mileage. Another benefit to it though is that it will increase the octane rating from say 89 to 91 rating.

KYLiquid

there are blends of gas like E85 (85% corn based ethanol and 15% gasoline) sold at E85 in certain areas of the US, the cars this gas is approved for are specific models (they have an ECU that can dectect if your running gas or E85 and adjust the fuel/timing accordingly) from what ive read since it contains a large ammount of ethanol it produces a bit more power but the car also has to use more of it. So its a trade off, more power = less mpg. Im not sure how the RX8 or any rotary would do on it.

I know from reading, and experience that you should try to keep any addatives in the gas to 20% or less to keep from damaging the engine, fuel system and emmissions system.

It could be worth a shot, you would most likely gain some power, but lose MPG...assuming the ecu would adjust for the new fuel.

EDIT : my comment on 20% or less adative is not based on ethanol, but on things like xylene and toulene used to boost the octain raiting. Also a lot of the fuel on the market already has ethanol and other similar thigns in it, to help reduce the emission and also to rais the octane raiting.

If you wanted to try it, I would start with a low mix (5%) and slowly increase the ammount till you felt no more gain. that would be all you need, anything extra, as long as it didnt hurt the car, would be useless anyhow.

rotarygod

Most cars today already have the calability to run E85. Most people just don't know it. Here's a great site that will tell you all you ever wanted to know about how to make it, what cars can use it, how to convert older cars, etc...

http://running_on_alcohol.tripod.com/index.html

priscilla ls1

E10 is approved for use in all vehicle sold in the U.S. it is great because of its high performance, clean-burning.
But E85 Is not and only approved for use in about 5 million automobiles sold in the U.S well so far. But it would not hurt any to use E85 in a rotory, And u will never fail that emissions test.

Jaguar

The only cause for concern I think I have is that even if I can distill it down to say 190 proof that would leave me with about 5% water. It should be ok though. I will let you know how it works out. I will be getting the supplies and should take about a month or two.

StealthTL

iTrader: (1)

I think your buddy is missing one of his Basic Chem 101 classes.

It is physically impossible to go above (about) 190 proof by distillation: the alcohol forms an azeotrope with water that boils at 78.15°C; since the boiling point of this binary azeotrope is below that of pure ethanol, fuel grade ethanol cannot be obtained by simple distillation. Commercially, we use benzene to form the ternary azeotrope of benzene, ethanol, and water, with boiling point 64.9°C; the water can then be removed from fuel ethanol by distilling off this azeotrope.

Fuel users MUST dehydrate the ethanol, to get out the 8 or 9% water, otherwise it WILL settle out, freeze, corrode, and breed nitrogen based algae in your tank. Cooler temps make it drop out sooner. Frozen gas lines in a single line system like ours will mean a tow.

Unless you want to be distilling carcinogenic benzene in your home, this is probably a bad idea.

S

priscilla ls1

Also another thing to add. To run it straight you would have to change fuel lines, fuel pump, tank ect, or eventually it would do damage. And tune for it at a dyno. Its a good idea if you address all the problems first and tune as it will run lean. Stoich for ethanol is about 9.6:1 where stoich for gasoline is about 14.64:1. If the engine tried to command an AFR of 14.64:1 for ethanol, it would run very very lean. That in addition to the corrosiveness of ethanol and other factors. I might eventually do this with an entirely diff fuel system. Sounds like A great fuel alternative.

rotarygod

If you need to get all of the water out of your ethanol, you can use Zeolyte which is a silica. It is pretty cheap stuff and can be reused indefinitely.

http://www.thomasregister.com/olc/60852852/m_sieve.htm

Jaguar

Thanks for your help with the moisture area. We use that stuff in some of our projects sites. I think I may also have to add some sort of a lubricant to the ethanol or mix it with some petro. The other thing i could do is to get that oil pump mod from RacingBeat. I also saw a couple months back that there was a company that sold a fuel additive designed for the Rotary (Can't remember the name). I am very confident that this will work with our engines and will yield better performance all around.

I figure that if I can keep this down to at least $1.50/gal, it will be worth the trouble. And I am confident I can.

rotarygod

Unless you can retune your engine, I'd suggest mixing it with your gas. Don't go too crazy though. You don't want the car to run bad. I keep pondering building a still to make ethanol. I already homebrew beer and wine so the mash/fermenting process is nothing new to me. I would potentially use the ethanol in my RX-7 as it has a fully programmable standlone ecu. I just don't want to replace the steel gas tank with a sealed plastic one right now. Maybe in the future I'll try it. I'm really just too busy.

Jaguar

I hear ya. I think what I will do is go with the E-85 mix the EPA has approved. I guess that one of the concerns was about the lubrication. They tested it and this seems to be the best mix of both worlds. As far as the ECU goes, I may end up getting the Mazsport ECU or the Megasquirt that you guys are testing.

zoom44

dont do more than 10% in the rx-8

Jaguar

That is in almost every owners manual. Manufacturers like to cover their butts with that warning. I understand what you are saying though. I just want to test it and hopefully stick it to the man.

rotarygod

Basically what that is implying is that your car won't run well untuned with more than about 10% alcohol in the gas. That's understandable.

zoom44

its implying that you will loseyour engine warranty if you use more than they say. doesnt matter if you are turbo ing etc

Jaguar

My mileage is almost up anyways, so it really doesn't matter.

priscilla ls1

See where they sell E85 in your area.
http://www.e85fuel.com/database/search.php

Jaguar

Columbus is about 11/2 hours away. I checked. Thanks though.

xabjw4

I have a diesel VW golf now in the family, the 1.9 TDI. I was reading on the website, www.TDIclub.com about some peolpe adding 3-4 ounces of Acetone to a tank of Diesel or gasoline and getting increases in full economy etc. (More in gas than diesel)

I posted it here once but no reply, anyone heard of or have any understanding or experience with this chemistry? They claim it does boast milage figure noticably but don't overdo it, max of 3-4 ounces per tankful (i.e. 15 gallons in the gas tank)

Comments ???????
Jeff B.

Crazy.8

Now that its 2014 does anyone have any additional information on running ethanol with the rotary?

I know the exxon gas I put in my car is 10% ethanol from the pump. Want to know if going more than that would be fine?

Arca_ex

iTrader: (10)

Do you know why you want to run E85?

You have to tune for it, you can't just dump it in the tank and go.

no-coast-punk

I've ran E-85 through my '07 for about 20k miles with no issue. Picked up ~20whp on E-85 as well.