BHR Ignition Kit Doesn't Work!!
04-18-2009, 02:50 PM
#1
BHR Ignition Kit Doesn't Work!!
Now that I have your attention;
Many of you are wondering why, after all the allegations that the BHR Ignition System does not work (especially for F/I or power-adder applications) we at BHR have been quiet about it all. Here is the story;
When we were developing the kit we tried the MSD 8247 coils versus the LS2 coils. When we deemd the LS2s to be our coil of choice (for several reasons), and before we began production, I ran into the Yukon coils as another option and assumed (which is where I screwed up) that their operational properties were the exact same as the LS2s except with much higher electrical output. The latter was/is true but the former is not. The Yukons have different needs in order to operate at maximum efficiency but, once those minor needs are met, the payoff is WELL worth it because they truly are a surprise performer and will definitely provide the current and voltage we have alleged all along.
In N/A applications this does not tend to pose an issue. However, we discovered that in power-adder applicationss the Yukons had a rather difficult time. That is until NOW.
The reason not much has been said about all this is because we have been busy re-evaluating everything about the BHR Ignition System and ALL of the issues we have experienced along the way, including potential installer error, and I have been losing a LOT of sleep during this period.
It seems each batch of kits shipped had their own unique set of circumstances and they were mostly installation issues. This phase is what I now call "Gamma-testing" as our customers' reactions and experiences are always an unknown and the Gamma-testing phase is where we learn how people interpret the installation instructions, how they handle the product, and how they perceive any benefits. All of this is also extremely UN-scientific and extremely subjective in nature. This is what makes it so difficult to assess things and to interpret the effectiveness of many products we in the aftermarket industry offer for sale.
As for the performance of the BHR Ignition System and what we intend to do about it; we at BHR have devised a remedy and we will soon set about dispatching said solution to all of you. Please be patient as MazdaManiac (Jeff) and I have a LOT of records to reconcile and people to contact. We will start with the power-adder applications and work our way through the entire list of people who own the kit or are about to.
Jeff used Flashwing's car as the first test-mule, used his own car to verify the results, and my car was used over the past few days to further verify the outcomes. Although my own credibility may be suffering right now as a result of my oversight when I selected the Yukon coils for our kit I will still tell all of you that once you get the remedy from us you will be glad you did. The degree to which our remedy improves things is the same degree to which the BHR Ignition System provided improvements versus the OEM coils in the first place. In other words (and I am being a bit loose with my semantics, here), many of you will see a "doubling" of the benefits gleaned from the kit and I can only hope after that you will all forgive me for my oversight and seeming relative silence on this particular matter.
We have been quiet because we did not want to engage everybody in speculation and, rather, wanted to spend our time figuring it all out. Consider the matter solved and the "fix" is forthcoming.
Thanks for understanding all of this and I hope you will still consider BHR to be a credible company with whom to do business.
Many of you are wondering why, after all the allegations that the BHR Ignition System does not work (especially for F/I or power-adder applications) we at BHR have been quiet about it all. Here is the story;
When we were developing the kit we tried the MSD 8247 coils versus the LS2 coils. When we deemd the LS2s to be our coil of choice (for several reasons), and before we began production, I ran into the Yukon coils as another option and assumed (which is where I screwed up) that their operational properties were the exact same as the LS2s except with much higher electrical output. The latter was/is true but the former is not. The Yukons have different needs in order to operate at maximum efficiency but, once those minor needs are met, the payoff is WELL worth it because they truly are a surprise performer and will definitely provide the current and voltage we have alleged all along.
In N/A applications this does not tend to pose an issue. However, we discovered that in power-adder applicationss the Yukons had a rather difficult time. That is until NOW.
The reason not much has been said about all this is because we have been busy re-evaluating everything about the BHR Ignition System and ALL of the issues we have experienced along the way, including potential installer error, and I have been losing a LOT of sleep during this period.
It seems each batch of kits shipped had their own unique set of circumstances and they were mostly installation issues. This phase is what I now call "Gamma-testing" as our customers' reactions and experiences are always an unknown and the Gamma-testing phase is where we learn how people interpret the installation instructions, how they handle the product, and how they perceive any benefits. All of this is also extremely UN-scientific and extremely subjective in nature. This is what makes it so difficult to assess things and to interpret the effectiveness of many products we in the aftermarket industry offer for sale.
As for the performance of the BHR Ignition System and what we intend to do about it; we at BHR have devised a remedy and we will soon set about dispatching said solution to all of you. Please be patient as MazdaManiac (Jeff) and I have a LOT of records to reconcile and people to contact. We will start with the power-adder applications and work our way through the entire list of people who own the kit or are about to.
Jeff used Flashwing's car as the first test-mule, used his own car to verify the results, and my car was used over the past few days to further verify the outcomes. Although my own credibility may be suffering right now as a result of my oversight when I selected the Yukon coils for our kit I will still tell all of you that once you get the remedy from us you will be glad you did. The degree to which our remedy improves things is the same degree to which the BHR Ignition System provided improvements versus the OEM coils in the first place. In other words (and I am being a bit loose with my semantics, here), many of you will see a "doubling" of the benefits gleaned from the kit and I can only hope after that you will all forgive me for my oversight and seeming relative silence on this particular matter.
We have been quiet because we did not want to engage everybody in speculation and, rather, wanted to spend our time figuring it all out. Consider the matter solved and the "fix" is forthcoming.
Thanks for understanding all of this and I hope you will still consider BHR to be a credible company with whom to do business.
Last edited by Charles R. Hill; 04-18-2009 at 02:53 PM.
04-18-2009, 03:04 PM
#4
No worries.
I have faith in BHR to stand by their products and remedy any flaws as they are presented.
I have to disagree with Ray on one thing.
You mentioned that your credibility may be suffering; but by publicly acknowledging and admitting your oversight, I think you've gain MORE respect from the RX8 community.
I have faith in BHR to stand by their products and remedy any flaws as they are presented.
I have to disagree with Ray on one thing.
You mentioned that your credibility may be suffering; but by publicly acknowledging and admitting your oversight, I think you've gain MORE respect from the RX8 community.
04-18-2009, 03:18 PM
#7
You can do it (if Charles doesn't say the opposite), my car runs much better with my kit installed! Whatever BHR is going to address must be something intended mostly for FI guys.
There are a lot of kits here in italy, some of the users also removed the wires but there are no unsatisfied customers so far.
I am sure that, for most of us, it will be just another extra and not a real problem solution for to solve an issue you must be having it first!
There are a lot of kits here in italy, some of the users also removed the wires but there are no unsatisfied customers so far.
I am sure that, for most of us, it will be just another extra and not a real problem solution for to solve an issue you must be having it first!
04-18-2009, 03:31 PM
#8
FWIW - I have tested a part of the solution on an NA BHR car - and stock motor; it still makes a rather remarkable difference... I was blown away actually.
I'll finalize my testing in the next week to see if I can get even more gains per Ray's instructions; either way NA-ers don't be worried about putting them on now - they work great.... with the updates they will just work great-er-er-est-ness or something like that.
I'll finalize my testing in the next week to see if I can get even more gains per Ray's instructions; either way NA-ers don't be worried about putting them on now - they work great.... with the updates they will just work great-er-er-est-ness or something like that.
04-18-2009, 03:31 PM
#9
John, go ahead and install the coils and make sure to be careful with the plug wires. Once you get your AP we will get you all set up and you'll have another slight improvement in performance from your car. The N/A applications that use the OEM PCM and maps have had ZERO issues (aside form the pre-connected spark plug wires, that is), according to my recent survey of all 130+ BHR Ignition System owners.
Please also remember that this whole process will take some time for Jeff and I to implement so don't PM him, me, Flashwing, Easy_E1, or Hund as we are working on all of this as we speak. There are a LOT of people to contact.
Please also remember that this whole process will take some time for Jeff and I to implement so don't PM him, me, Flashwing, Easy_E1, or Hund as we are working on all of this as we speak. There are a LOT of people to contact.
Last edited by Charles R. Hill; 04-18-2009 at 03:37 PM.
04-18-2009, 03:41 PM
#11
No, but we will be adjusting for the coils retroactively and from now on have maps prepared for those who will also be using the BHR Ignition System.
Rather than engage in a long, back-and-forth, dialogue let me just say that all of you with the Cobb AP will be updated shortly. The F/I guys will also be contacted as to what needs to be done. I won't have the time nor the patience to get into the particulars here.
Lotsa variables/circumstances but everybody will be addressed.
Rather than engage in a long, back-and-forth, dialogue let me just say that all of you with the Cobb AP will be updated shortly. The F/I guys will also be contacted as to what needs to be done. I won't have the time nor the patience to get into the particulars here.
Lotsa variables/circumstances but everybody will be addressed.
Last edited by Charles R. Hill; 04-18-2009 at 04:01 PM.
04-18-2009, 03:53 PM
#12
Don't Tase Me Bro!
Join Date: Jan 2005
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Hey Ray, will you be losing money over this? I wouldn't feel right about putting you in the hole after all of your team's hard work. Whatever the additional costs are, I'll spot you the difference for mine.
04-18-2009, 04:00 PM
#13
I am sure the entire BHR team will argue over the various perspectives but it is strictly my own obligation to see the proper resolution and I accept the fullest of responsibility in doing so. The rest of the guys, in keeping my own and BHR's best interests at heart, keep trying to get me to stop "giving away the farm" but in this case it would be the right thing to do.
If people want to throw money at BHR's problems, I have a worthy recipient in mind who could use that sort of help way more than BHR can. PM me about it.
If people want to throw money at BHR's problems, I have a worthy recipient in mind who could use that sort of help way more than BHR can. PM me about it.
It will be worth it.
