Divine_Racer

Hey guys!
I'm looking into buying a new car to start track racing. I'm leaning towards the RX8 so far. I haven't driven it yet and plan to start test driving a bunch of cars in the next few months to see what I like driving best. If anyone has any tips on how to get started or what to look for please let me know.
Thanks!

Arca_ex

iTrader: (10)

What kind of track experience do you have so far?

Divine_Racer

I've done autocross once haha. So not much at all. I was thinking of starting stock and just practicing on the track and getting experience and then once I get better enter amateur races. Maybe even use the extra money for racing school.

Arca_ex

iTrader: (10)

My best advice is to buy a really cheap dedicated track car. Lightweight underpowered cars provide a great platform for beginning drivers to learn car control. Horsepower is fun but it can get you into a lot of trouble really fast in the first learning stages.

Take a look at getting a 1st Gen Miata with a 1.8L. There's tons of aftermarket for them once you decide to start modding it, they're MUCH cheaper than an RX8, they're pretty reliable and easy to work on and once you make it to the race level in say a couple years there's a couple popular series for Miatas to choose from.

If I wasn't way too tall to fit in a 1st Gen Miata then I would have been in one of those.

After you get the car, get some good street tires like Hankook RS-3's or Dunlop Direzza Star Specs to learn on, get some decent brake pads (Hawk HP+ are great for beginning on a Miata), and replace the brake fluid with something like ATE Super Blue or Motul RBF600 that will withstand the heat from track use, and if you do get a miata you will need to install a roll bar (Hard Dog makes and excellent one).

Then hit up a local NASA event or the likes and sign up for HPDE1 and start having a blast!

After you do that, don't do anything else to the car besides regular wear items and reliability upgrades. Drive the car as is for awhile then worry about buying parts later, if you keep changing the car it will hinder your development as a driver. The best modification you can do is the driver mod, more time in the seat is the most cost effective way to lower your lap times.

EricB

iTrader: (7)

^ great writeup.

Its going to be a while before i bring my rx8 to the track, i hydroplaned sideways downhill relatively towards the beginning of my first rx8 ownership and totaled it. Im scared to push my car now.

im taking my babysteps and attending my first autox next month.

Divine_Racer

Wow thanks for the info! I was finding '05 RX8's on Craigslist with under 100k miles for about $8000. I'm guessing the miata is a lot less, and I would use the extra cash for the upgrades. I'm not too worried about maintenance on the car because my dad is a mechanic and has shown me quite a bit. I'll definitely use your tips on what to buy for racing! It looks like I'll be looking for miatas too now. That last part about experience was put very well.

fuztupnz

iTrader: (4)

my best advice is to not buy anything and look into skip barber or any other driving school that's close and provides a car.

Don't buy a car to start racing if you've never driven anything on the track before.

bse50

If you start tracking\racing there's no such thing as extra cash. Save that money for spares, tyres and maintenance.
If you want to start racing get some track seat time then go to a performance driving school and refine your technique.
After that...
Find a series you can compete in (cheapest possible) that races in tracks near to you. Spec miata sounds about right... Bring the car to a fab shop to add all the mandatory safety devices and modify it to be up to spec\regulations.
Plan on spending a lot of money, racing is expensive.
You will also most likely need a trailer to bring the car to the tracks. Depending on the series it's unlikely that your car will still be road legal.

JCrane82

iTrader: (3)

I agree with the previously mentioned Spec Miata league. Also, Spec Miatas are found for sale on craigslist or other local sites pretty often. For a beginner, you can pick up a fully modified Spec Miata for about $6,000-$10,000 depending on history. This would make it easier/faster to get into the series.

Did the OP specify that he/she was interested in wheel to wheel racing, or was he/she just interested in tracking? I wasn't sure from his/her comments.

bse50

Given the thread title i think he wants to race.
Given the post... i think he has no clue

AZ R3

Or do what I did and buy a brand new car to take on the track

At least you won't have to worry about maintaining a high-miles car AND a track car all at once I still haz compression

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

Spec miatas are a great choice. But dont discount the RX8 either. A good used RX8 with good compression numbers and maintaince history can be a good option. Me thinks this is also going to be a street car too? With the RX8 he will not need a trailer, its a very good platform to learn from and believe it or not the cars are pretty tough. Now if he wants to progress to w to w with the car he buys--then no--the Rx 8 is not the best choice. I would go with the Honda S2000.

Divine_Racer

I would like to progress to wheel to wheel at some point but it will be some time. I want to get as much experience as possible. The main thing I'm looking for is to start off in a great car to learn racing. I'm not too worried about it being street legal, though it would be fun to have on the streets. That's partly why I lean towards the RX8, because I would make it racing safe, but the engine stock until I complete a racing school. I was thinking of saving up money on the side to go to skip barber, but also buy a car first. I am still open minded though!
Olddragger, is there a reason you would choose the s2000 over the RX8 in w to w?

40w8

Idea for you.

I live in the desert, but of course it does rain some during the year creating "summer ice".

You can see it on the street where people slide and squeegee the road clean.

I've always bought tires that were good in the wet first that were also good in the dry for my piece of mind.

I loved my wet track day once where no one could catch me.

Anyhow, Continental Extreme Contact DW tested the closest to this philosophy lately: skid pad approx. 1.01 g dry, .93 g wet. or their DWS is very good longer lasting all season if you don't track it.

dmitrik4

iTrader: (5)

A good rule of thumb is not to put on a track any car you can't afford to walk away from if/when you ball it up.

If you are serious about getting into wheel to wheel racing, you should have a plan. It's not hard, but it does cost money, take time, and require some thought. If you don't have a plan, it's going to cost even more time and money when you realize you've wasted a bunch of both.

Do you want to run with SCCA? NASA? What prep level...IT, Production, etc? Do you want to run a Spec class, or an open class? In order to run in most W2W series, you'll need a competition license. In order to go through comp school, you'll need a car that meets the requirements of that body's school.

If you are not ready to do most of the fab/prep work yourself or don't have $$$ to pay someone else to do it (e.g., a cage is going to cost you $2k easily if someone else builds it for you), you are best off buying an already-prepped car. There are plenty of sites out there with cars that are already built to spec; it's a lot cheaper to buy than to build. Like others have said, a Spec Miata is a good choice. So is a Spec E30. Ditto an IT car.

Use that car for track days and comp school. Get your license (which if you're not an idiot or a total spaz, is not difficult), and have at it.

Sanctioning bodies:
http://www.scca.com/clubracing/
http://www.nasaproracing.com/

Class-specific forums:
http://www.improvedtouring.com/forums/index.php
http://mazdaracers.com/
http://www.spece30.com/

Cars for sale:
http://www.sccaforums.com/forums/groupid/6
http://www.racingjunk.com/

If you want to try out W2W racing without needing to go through licensing school, see if you can join or work an arrive and drive with a 24 Hours of Lemons or ChumpCar team (although if you have no track experience, hitching a ride with an existing team might be tough):

http://www.24hoursoflemons.com
http://www.chumpcar.com

Divine_Racer

Dmitrik4: those are some great points. I'm not completely sure about which group, but I was thinking SCCA. I'd like to start out a little slow and work my way up. I looked at some of the race ready cars and they are great. I'm just not sure if it will be best to jump into one of those. I want to consider how long the engine will last? I'm going to be practicing and casually getting experience. I would like to have a car that will last me some time maybe a year or so without major fixes. Wear and tear is obviously acceptable.

bse50

Before buying a race car enjoy what you have (track car rentals if they exist there etc) and driving schools.
Racing is expensive, you may find yourself satisfied with just track days

dmitrik4

iTrader: (5)

IMO you're better off with a maintained race car than some high-mileage street car. The very nature of driving on a track (racing or not) is stressful on mechanicals, so that's just the price of playing. But if you're just getting your feet wet (track days and comp school), a well-maintained racer should get you through. Just be aware that there are no guarantees, and this hobby is expensive.

I think that an Improved Touring (IT) car is probably a good spot for you to start. You should try poking around the IT forum and asking for advice. If you pick up something like an ITC car, you can always sell it later and make most of your money back if you keep it in good shape and don't bend it...then use that money towards something else.

Spend some time reading through the SCCA Club Racing site to get familiar with the classes and the process for getting your license. That way you have a better idea of what's in front of you. You sound like you're legitimately serious about actually racing (as opposed to "I just wanna go fast!"), so don't be afraid to ask questions of the folks who are doing it. You'll find that most racers are more than happy to help out someone who wants to learn. Good luck!

AZ R3

Truth. I haven't met anyone yet who wasn't more than happy to help or answer any questions.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

concerning my mentioning the S2000....its a great car (almost right out of the box), handles almost as well as the Rx8, its more competitive, great aftermarket, great support, and they have a good history of reliability if maintained correctly. They also have a bit more headroom etc .They are a little more pricey.
Heck even the E30 BMW is a great car to begin with--does take a lot of work to get it right though.
Miata's are also great --but they are EVERWHERE! That may be a good thing for someone just beginning. I always have to travel the road less traveled-I am an idiot .

AZ R3

The aftermarket for the S2000 is 2-3x as expensive as that for the Miata or Speed3, though.

sblethen

iTrader: (3)

Some great advice here. Please PM me if your interested in SCCA. My dad raced in his firstSCCA Improved touring race in 1984 and never missed a year since. check out the first year SCCA IT started. I started in 1999. Basically in short I live and breath IT I can help if you need direction. Google "go ahead and take the wheel". I think it is perfect for someone like yourself.

Where are you from?

Stephen

sblethen

iTrader: (3)

I think you will need deep pockets for the S2000 to be a top car in ITR but I also think it may be the car to have. With that being said I picked the RX8 for multiple reasons

Stephen

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

youre right--the S2 is more expensive to buy and in doing some mods. Some of the mods are not that expensive though. The S2000seems to respond better to the typical mods like cai, headers etc than ours. Dont get me wrong--the S2000 will never give you the functionally or the driving experience that the Rx8 does, but if it is the checkered flag you are aiming for then the Rx8 is not the car to get for road racing. It pains me to say that.
AutoX --yep the 8 is more competitive there.
For training purposes, first decide if you want to run in a momentum car class or a power car class.

d walker

Ordinarily I would agree, BUT- the WORST thing to own if you are learning to race is a race car. Your racing budget will be soaked up by preparing, maintaining, and transporting the beast. Rent, do not own, to begin with. This will allow you to try several different types of cars for less than buying a car while getting experience and your license.

No. Do not buy a Miata as a first race car unless you have a fair chunk of money or you like making parade laps instead of racing. Spec Miata is a highly competitive class where the front runners and even mid-pack folks are cheatign a lot better than you. Nothing is more frustrating to a beginning driver than to run last every single weekend.

Again, do not buy a race car to start racing Instead, find a rental amongst your local guys or a fly-in somewhere. Get your equipment. This is not a cheap up front cost, but fortunately you dont have to do it every year. Do not go out and buy top-shelf OMP or Sparco latest greatest unless you really have the money to burn. Instead, buy K-1, Pyrotect, etc. mid-level suit, gloves, etc. Buy a HANS or NecksGen(updated Defnder) because ALL wheel to wheel organizations now require them, and get a good helmet. Try several brands and types if possible and deal with a reputable company for the purchase. For the record, as much as I used to like Saferacer, we no longer recommend them due to some of our customers and good friends having hassles in the past year or so. Buy a helmet that fits you, not a helmet with a large pricetag. I have tried a couple of the Zamp helmets and they fit me OK, but in general Arai fits my head the best -not that I need a helmet since I no longer drive racecars, just own them. Once you have your gear and a rental agreement, go get your medical exam etc. and get your paperwork filed with whichever organization- I recommend SCCA, not NASA- you will be doing your school with. If you cannot get into a school right away, rent the car for a trackday or two and pay for some instruction.
*** PRO TIP- Instructors at NASA and SCCA are not Pro drivers or Instructors and are usually there because they passed a simple "test" and they get a free entry. Their job is to make sure you do not kill yourself or anyone else on the track and you can drive around without hitting anything on a regular basis. Thats it. If you want to learn how to drive, thats going to cost money, because you need to find a professional instructor- I work with several- to teach you how to drive. Doing the "usual" HPDE route is a false economy, as you will not only not learn anything, you are very likely to learn very very bad habits which will require more time/money to correct down the road.

It is a huge fallacy to think that any track time is fine, because at least your "out there". Track time costs money and time, both of which most of us have precious little of. Every moment you spend on track should be enjoyable and especially int he beginning should be educational.

Avoid HPDE, and especially NASA, unless you are just touring around in your street car. It is NOT racing and has nothing to do with racing and again, teaches very very bad habits that you will spend money correcting later.

Again- RENT!!! DO NOT BUY!!! your first racecar. Until you know what your doing ownign a racecar detracts from the most important thing you should be doing and thats learning how to drive a racecar, on a racetrack, in a race. Not making parade laps around trying to learn as you go. HPDE is NOT racing, and it doesnt not teach you to race, especially in a street car, race rubber or not. If you want to learn to race, learn to race, period.

I rent and race my RX8's every chance I get and I could not ask for a better more reliable and cheap to run race car. Since Feb I have done several track days (full days of instruction/testing), a race weekend/school with SCCA and a race weekend with NASA, and I will saddle up this coming Wednesday to go run the SCCA Pro Racing World Challenge Touring Car race at Miller Motorsports Park in Utah. Maintenance has been to check and add oil and fuel. One of the drivers bent a rear control arm ($65.00) and one car will need brake pads ($180) on the front. Thats it for maintenance. We DO NOT use Accessports and my cars are properly built and prepared, and we just do not have the issues that others might talk about. An RX8 is an awesome car to drive on track, very forgiving and easy to figur out.

Also, I obviously do not like NASA that much but I will not comment further on NASA VS SCCA vs EMRA vs whomever. I absolutely despise HPDE unless you are literally just out touring around in your street car.